Holy Shit, Darat Has Gone Mad

This is our lounge area. Feel free to come in and get acquainted!
User avatar
Moochie
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Postby Moochie » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:01 pm

xouper wrote:
Moochie wrote:Yes, my opinion, and worth as much as yours, and as well informed as anyone here.

That is clearly false, especially since you admit you don't know what happened before you joined JREF in 2005.

You say you understand the bulleted points I made, yet everything I've seen both here and there suggests to me that your "understanding" is deficient. And you haven't made a case to show how "irrelevant" they are to the criticism of Darat or anyone else.

You are calling MY understanding "deficient"?

:lmao:

What planet are YOU from?

No, I have not made my case recently. You missed it because you weren't even on the forums (here and there) when I did. So when you accuse me (and others ) of not having made our case, it merely reveals how little you know about it.

What Luke posted is a short overview but doesn't even come close to explaining all the shit that went down over the years.

Those bulleted points you made have been made by others long before you came around and we are all well aware of them. Old news. Really really old news. You say them as if you think you are telling us something we don't already know, but all you've done is reveal yourself as a clueless n00b.

You come here and mouth off about something you clearly know little about. So, no, your opinion about what happened is nowhere near as good as mine, or Luke's, or Cool Hand, or Pyrrho, or any number of other people who were there and you were not.



You're right on most counts, but why on earth haven't you moved on? I've said elsewhere that although I would run things differently, I accept the rules and how they're applied at the JREF today. Why can't you?

Yes, I'm a "clueless n00b," but I know well enough where to fight my battles against woo.


M.

User avatar
Moochie
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Postby Moochie » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:03 pm

gnome wrote:
* Moderators and administrators are volunteers

* The JREF forum belongs to the JREF, ie, Mr. Randi

* The JREF forum rules are Mr. Randi's rules.


These bullet points? You're asking why they're irrelevant?

You'll notice I addressed their relevance, but you didn't respond.

Tell me how the fact that Darat is a volunteer is relevant to criticism of his moderation decisions...

Tell me how the fact that the JREF belongs to Mr. Randi is relevant to criticism of the forum's rules...



It seems to me that you aren't willing to accept any moderation, no how. I can't argue against the choice you've made.


M.

User avatar
Bearguin
Posts: 8093
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:26 am
Title: Thankless Bastard!
Location: Get off my fucking lawn
Been thanked: 1444 times

Postby Bearguin » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:07 pm

Moochie wrote:
gnome wrote:
* Moderators and administrators are volunteers

* The JREF forum belongs to the JREF, ie, Mr. Randi

* The JREF forum rules are Mr. Randi's rules.


These bullet points? You're asking why they're irrelevant?

You'll notice I addressed their relevance, but you didn't respond.

Tell me how the fact that Darat is a volunteer is relevant to criticism of his moderation decisions...

Tell me how the fact that the JREF belongs to Mr. Randi is relevant to criticism of the forum's rules...



It seems to me that you aren't willing to accept any moderation, no how. I can't argue against the choice you've made.


M.


More like he isn't willing to accept incompetent moderation, regardless of whether it is a paid or unpaid position.



Edit to add: Crap. I said I wasn't responding here anymore. Guess I'm a fucking liar.

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 7816
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Postby xouper » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:21 pm

Moochie wrote:... I'm OK with the rules at the JREF as they stand, and how they're applied today.

And some people are happy with the way King George Bush II "interpreted" the Constitution.

And some people are happy with the way Obama exempted his own administration from Congressionally mandated whistleblower protections.

:roll:

Moochie wrote:... why on earth haven't you moved on? I've said elsewhere that although I would run things differently, I accept the rules and how they're applied at the JREF today. Why can't you?

Why do I need to accept the rules at JREF? I was told on JREF -- more than once and in no uncertain terms -- that if I didn't like the way they ran the place, leave. So eventually, I did. I moved on. That doesn't mean I must never again talk about it, especially if someone else brings it up.


P.S. As I understand it, there's more Kool Aid® when you feel the need for some.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21349
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 313 times

Postby gnome » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:51 pm

Moochie wrote:
gnome wrote:
* Moderators and administrators are volunteers

* The JREF forum belongs to the JREF, ie, Mr. Randi

* The JREF forum rules are Mr. Randi's rules.


These bullet points? You're asking why they're irrelevant?

You'll notice I addressed their relevance, but you didn't respond.

Tell me how the fact that Darat is a volunteer is relevant to criticism of his moderation decisions...

Tell me how the fact that the JREF belongs to Mr. Randi is relevant to criticism of the forum's rules...



It seems to me that you aren't willing to accept any moderation, no how. I can't argue against the choice you've made.


M.


I think that the moderation methods they have set up (acting only on reported posts, for example) and the effort to enforce "civility" and "on topic" are counterproductive.

Were it up to me, after Randi insisted on moderation to make the board student-friendly, I'd enforce only requiring SFW content, rules against cursing, and the typical restrictions against spamming and revealing personal info, and leave it at that.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 65469
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 2958 times
Been thanked: 1891 times

Postby Doctor X » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:16 pm

Bearguin wrote:More like he isn't willing to accept incompetent moderation, regardless of whether it is a paid or unpaid position.


Indeed, quite the fallacy the Sycophant made.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Moochie
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Postby Moochie » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:54 pm

Bearguin wrote:
Moochie wrote:
gnome wrote:
* Moderators and administrators are volunteers

* The JREF forum belongs to the JREF, ie, Mr. Randi

* The JREF forum rules are Mr. Randi's rules.


These bullet points? You're asking why they're irrelevant?

You'll notice I addressed their relevance, but you didn't respond.

Tell me how the fact that Darat is a volunteer is relevant to criticism of his moderation decisions...

Tell me how the fact that the JREF belongs to Mr. Randi is relevant to criticism of the forum's rules...



It seems to me that you aren't willing to accept any moderation, no how. I can't argue against the choice you've made.


M.


More like he isn't willing to accept incompetent moderation, regardless of whether it is a paid or unpaid position.



Edit to add: Crap. I said I wasn't responding here anymore. Guess I'm a fucking liar.


And I'd just add that "incompetence" is at least 50% in the eye of the beholder.


M.

User avatar
Moochie
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Postby Moochie » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:01 pm

xouper wrote:
Moochie wrote:... I'm OK with the rules at the JREF as they stand, and how they're applied today.

And some people are happy with the way King George Bush II "interpreted" the Constitution.

And some people are happy with the way Obama exempted his own administration from Congressionally mandated whistleblower protections.

:roll:

Moochie wrote:... why on earth haven't you moved on? I've said elsewhere that although I would run things differently, I accept the rules and how they're applied at the JREF today. Why can't you?

Why do I need to accept the rules at JREF? I was told on JREF -- more than once and in no uncertain terms -- that if I didn't like the way they ran the place, leave. So eventually, I did. I moved on. That doesn't mean I must never again talk about it, especially if someone else brings it up.


P.S. As I understand it, there's more Kool Aid® when you feel the need for some.


OK. I get it. You're a grudge freak. Enjoy yourself. FYI, I've had the "move on" advice given to me on more than a couple of occasions. So what? Our fight's with the woo. Posters and moderators come and go, but the woo lives on. I don't know if you're currently at the JREF forums but your facility with language (polite language :) ) tells me that you ought to be.


M.

User avatar
Moochie
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Postby Moochie » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:07 pm

gnome wrote:
Moochie wrote:
gnome wrote:
* Moderators and administrators are volunteers

* The JREF forum belongs to the JREF, ie, Mr. Randi

* The JREF forum rules are Mr. Randi's rules.


These bullet points? You're asking why they're irrelevant?

You'll notice I addressed their relevance, but you didn't respond.

Tell me how the fact that Darat is a volunteer is relevant to criticism of his moderation decisions...

Tell me how the fact that the JREF belongs to Mr. Randi is relevant to criticism of the forum's rules...



It seems to me that you aren't willing to accept any moderation, no how. I can't argue against the choice you've made.


M.


I think that the moderation methods they have set up (acting only on reported posts, for example) and the effort to enforce "civility" and "on topic" are counterproductive.

Were it up to me, after Randi insisted on moderation to make the board student-friendly, I'd enforce only requiring SFW content, rules against cursing, and the typical restrictions against spamming and revealing personal info, and leave it at that.



There are ongoing discussions about the "civility" and "on-topic" rules; quite a few members have issues with them. I have a feeling the "on-topic" (Rule 11) rule may be relaxed somewhat in future, but don't quote me on that. The "civility" rule's all right by me. I think it's important to respect other posters' humanity, even if you don't respect your own.


M.

User avatar
Moochie
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Postby Moochie » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:08 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Bearguin wrote:More like he isn't willing to accept incompetent moderation, regardless of whether it is a paid or unpaid position.


Indeed, quite the fallacy the Sycophant made.

--J.D.



I thought I'd left you behind in kindergarten.


M.

Simon Bar Sinister
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:04 am

Postby Simon Bar Sinister » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:08 pm

Moochie wrote:Our fight's with the woo.


So's ours.

Moochie wrote: Posters and moderators come and go, but the woo lives on.


In the moderation policies over there, yes. We don't just exempt those responsible from "our fight" because they happen to be on "our side".

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21349
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 313 times

Postby gnome » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:41 pm

Moochie wrote:
There are ongoing discussions about the "civility" and "on-topic" rules; quite a few members have issues with them. I have a feeling the "on-topic" (Rule 11) rule may be relaxed somewhat in future, but don't quote me on that. The "civility" rule's all right by me. I think it's important to respect other posters' humanity, even if you don't respect your own.


M.


I think it's important, too. I just think it's futile to try to enforce it because it's too subjective. It's nearly impossible to do without either being perceived as playing favorites or unintentionally playing favorites. It's a headache they don't need when instead they can allow people to look out for their own feelings--and to point it out themselves when someone's made a personal attack instead of an attack against the argument.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 67930
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 2391 times
Been thanked: 971 times

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:49 pm

By way of comparison (not that there's any competition of course of course of course of course of),
Shermerland has a moderated forum with some sort of civility rule, and yet no such drama.

Or did I miss it :?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
That masked man
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:25 am

Postby That masked man » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:12 pm

Moochie wrote:There are ongoing discussions about the "civility" and "on-topic" rules; quite a few members have issues with them. I have a feeling the "on-topic" (Rule 11) rule may be relaxed somewhat in future, but don't quote me on that. The "civility" rule's all right by me. I think it's important to respect other posters' humanity, even if you don't respect your own.


M.


AFAIK the "on-topic" rule only applies on some forums and not others. For a few forums it makes sense, particularly the "JREF topics" group, but maybe some of the general topics as well. On other forums it does not work as well. Maybe the solution could be to further restrict the scope of the rule so it applies to fewer forums? I can still see where Luke's situation with the JREF taxes might still occur, but I think it would occur a lot less often. You could get most of the benefit the rule was created for without as much of the negative effect.

From my (admittedly limited) perspective, it seems like many of the problems are not from the rules themselves but from their ambiguity which provides cover for selective enforcement, which will happen, consciously or not.
"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." - G. K. Chesterton

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 7816
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Postby xouper » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:53 pm

Moochie wrote:OK. I get it. ...

Apparently not.

User avatar
hammegk
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:16 pm
Title: Curmudgeon
Location: Hither, sometimes Yon
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Postby hammegk » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:05 pm

xouper wrote:
Moochie wrote:OK. I get it. ...

Apparently not.

What else should one expect from another sycophantic JREF cocksucker/wannabe?
The most important things in life–beauty, grace, redemption, compassion, loyalty, love–are beyond the reach of reason. Which doesn’t make them any less real. Stay far back: I'm allergic to Stupid.

The simple rule, the greatest plan, that he should keep who has the power, and he should take who can.

The only enemies of guns: rust ... and politicians.

Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

“Jesus loves the little cheeses, all the cheeses of the world. Swiss and Cheddar, stinky, too. If He loved them, so should you. Jesus loves the little cheeses of the world.”

I'm right 98% of the time; who cares about the other 3%?

User avatar
Luke T.
Posts: 27062
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Nowhere near Pakistan

Postby Luke T. » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:11 pm

Moochie wrote:The "civility" rule's all right by me. I think it's important to respect other posters' humanity, even if you don't respect your own.


The "civility" rule is one of the goddammdest dumbest fucking rules that forum has ever introduced. Only a fool would believe it is efficacious, productive, or possible to consistently or even sanely enforce it, or that it does not inhibit free thought.

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to haze you like that.
"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)

I 69dodge

User avatar
robinson
Posts: 4195
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Be good to each other
Location: USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Postby robinson » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:53 pm

You are correct Luke. The "civility rule" only makes it more like polite society, where a "fuck you" is more polite, more clever, or more common.

It doesn't, and can't, turn uncivil fuckheads into civil people, and anyone with a clue knows how to game the system.
You never know what's going to happen

User avatar
hammegk
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:16 pm
Title: Curmudgeon
Location: Hither, sometimes Yon
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Postby hammegk » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:17 pm

Luke T. wrote:
Moochie wrote:The "civility" rule's all right by me. I think it's important to respect other posters' humanity, even if you don't respect your own.


The "civility" rule is one of the goddammdest dumbest fucking rules that forum has ever introduced. Only a fool would believe it is efficacious, productive, or possible to consistently or even sanely enforce it, or that it does not inhibit free thought.

Reported.
The most important things in life–beauty, grace, redemption, compassion, loyalty, love–are beyond the reach of reason. Which doesn’t make them any less real. Stay far back: I'm allergic to Stupid.

The simple rule, the greatest plan, that he should keep who has the power, and he should take who can.

The only enemies of guns: rust ... and politicians.

Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

“Jesus loves the little cheeses, all the cheeses of the world. Swiss and Cheddar, stinky, too. If He loved them, so should you. Jesus loves the little cheeses of the world.”

I'm right 98% of the time; who cares about the other 3%?

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12868
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1462 times
Been thanked: 465 times

Postby sparks » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:37 pm

hammegk wrote:
Luke T. wrote:
Moochie wrote:The "civility" rule's all right by me. I think it's important to respect other posters' humanity, even if you don't respect your own.


The "civility" rule is one of the goddammdest dumbest fucking rules that forum has ever introduced. Only a fool would believe it is efficacious, productive, or possible to consistently or even sanely enforce it, or that it does not inhibit free thought.

Goddamned Fucking Reported.


Fixed. :lol:
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.


Return to “Banter”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 1 guest