Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by ed » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:59 am

Witness wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:58 am
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Suburbia move-in day, the 1950s.
They were so happy that day. Excited and happy.

Now they are mostly dead.

Jesus thats morbid.
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Witness » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:22 am

ed wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:59 am
They were so happy that day. Excited and happy.

Now they are mostly dead.

Jesus thats morbid.
As I wrote elsewhere: "From dust we return to dust. But between the two there is alcohol single malt. How couldn't we dance?"



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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by robinson » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:47 pm

Later they would discover the value of a second ramp
You never know what's going to happen

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Witness » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:17 am

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by xouper » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:10 am

Helicopters for everybody?

That prediction came true. For example:

Image

They cost less than a new Tesla. And no license required*.

Of course you would be stupid to try to fly it without proper training.




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* Footnote: Certain flight restrictions apply if you don't have a license.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:12 am

And you would end up in prison if you flew it off the roof of an urban tenement (as in the magazine picture).

Or over any inhabited area.
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by xouper » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:48 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:12 am
And you would end up in prison if you flew it off the roof of an urban tenement (as in the magazine picture).

Or over any inhabited area.
Got a source for that?

As I understand it, having studied this issue as a pilot and former owner of an ultralight aircraft (in Aurora, IL), if you don't have an airworthiness certificate, you are restricted from flying over congested areas*, but the penalty is a civil fine, but no jail. And if your helicopter has an airworthiness certificate, that restriction does not apply, and you can fly it off the roof of your building if the owner gives permission.




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* FAR Part 103 section 103.15 Operations over congested areas. No person may operate an ultralight vehicle over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:12 pm

You sure about that?
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by shemp » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm

Witness wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:17 am
Image
Just like flying cars, absolute lunacy. People already cause too many accidents in two dimensions. And when your vehicle fails, you can't pull over to the shoulder. You go straight to the ground and your death. Also, a significant increase in fuel consumption.
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Giz » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 pm

shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm
Witness wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:17 am
Image
Just like flying cars, absolute lunacy. People already cause too many accidents in two dimensions. And when your vehicle fails, you can't pull over to the shoulder. You go straight to the ground and your death. Also, a significant increase in fuel consumption.
But it reduces congestion. And once the self driving cars tech has the bugs worked out, this could be the next step!

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by shemp » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:55 pm

Giz wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 pm
shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm
Witness wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:17 am
Image
Just like flying cars, absolute lunacy. People already cause too many accidents in two dimensions. And when your vehicle fails, you can't pull over to the shoulder. You go straight to the ground and your death. Also, a significant increase in fuel consumption.
But it reduces congestion. And once if the self driving cars tech has ever gets the bugs worked out, this could be the next step!
Good luck with that. Even with it, almost every accident ends in fatality(ies). Also, I forgot to mention the increase in noise pollution, and light pollution at night.
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by xouper » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:28 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:12 pm
You sure about that?
Yes.

I cited my sources, but there is always a one percent chance I may have missed something.

I am willing to be persuaded otherwise if you have an authoritative source that supports your claims.

Obligatory Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Please consult an appropriate legal expert if you need actual legal advice over and above some informal jawboning on an anonymous internet forum.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:45 pm

What happens if you don't stop flying your ultralight over the crowded city?

Just more fines which are part the cost of commuting that way? :lmao:
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by xouper » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:51 pm

shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm
Just like flying cars, absolute lunacy. People already cause too many accidents in two dimensions. And when your vehicle fails, you can't pull over to the shoulder. You go straight to the ground and your death. Also, a significant increase in fuel consumption.
Giz wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 pm
But it reduces congestion. And once if the self driving cars tech has ever gets the bugs worked out, this could be the next step!
shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:55 pm
Good luck with that. Even with it, almost every accident ends in fatality(ies). Also, I forgot to mention the increase in noise pollution, and light pollution at night.
Shemp is wrong in claiming aviation failures almost always end in fatalities. Not to mention that such failures are less common than failures in ground vehicles (cars, etc). More specifically, it is seldom true that if your aviation vehicle fails, "You go straight to the ground and your death." I know this from first hand experience as a pilot.

To be fair, Shemp is partly correct about the fuel consumption of helicopters versus cars. However, since most people willingly trade money for convenience on a daily basis, such a "complaint" is a non-starter. Example: A car uses significantly more fuel than a bicycle, and yet people willingly pay extra for the advantage of a car over a bicycle.

Noise pollution can be solved. Shemp's complaint about light pollution is bullshit.

Shemp is free to avoid flying if he so chooses. He is also entitled to express his paranoid and ignorant opinions about those who choose to fly. And we are entitled to dismiss his objections as nonsense.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by xouper » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:55 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:45 pm
What happens if you don't stop flying your ultralight over the crowded city?

Just more fines which are part the cost of commuting that way? :lmao:
If you have an authoritative source for your claims, then post it.

Edited to add:

I once landed my ultralight at the Denny's in the Fox Valley Mall (there was an empty grass field where the OfficeMax building is now). When I came out after eating lunch, there were several people including a local police officer by my airplane. The officer asked me a few questions and then I flew away. Was I in violation of flying over a "congested area"? Maybe, maybe not. I probably could not do that today since that area is much more "congested" than it was then.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by shemp » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:15 pm

xouper wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:51 pm
shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm
Just like flying cars, absolute lunacy. People already cause too many accidents in two dimensions. And when your vehicle fails, you can't pull over to the shoulder. You go straight to the ground and your death. Also, a significant increase in fuel consumption.
Giz wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 pm
But it reduces congestion. And once if the self driving cars tech has ever gets the bugs worked out, this could be the next step!
shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:55 pm
Good luck with that. Even with it, almost every accident ends in fatality(ies). Also, I forgot to mention the increase in noise pollution, and light pollution at night.
Shemp is wrong in claiming aviation failures almost always end in fatalities. Not to mention that such failures are less common than failures in ground vehicles (cars, etc). More specifically, it is seldom true that if your aviation vehicle fails, "You go straight to the ground and your death." I know this from first hand experience as a pilot.

To be fair, Shemp is partly correct about the fuel consumption of helicopters versus cars. However, since most people willingly trade money for convenience on a daily basis, such a "complaint" is a non-starter. Example: A car uses significantly more fuel than a bicycle, and yet people willingly pay extra for the advantage of a car over a bicycle.

Noise pollution can be solved. Shemp's complaint about light pollution is bullshit.

Shemp is free to avoid flying if he so chooses. He is also entitled to express his paranoid and ignorant opinions about those who choose to fly. And we are entitled to dismiss his objections as nonsense.
How many millions of cars are there on U.S. roads at any one time? What will it be like when they're all in the air at the same time?

When you fly your plane, are you in the air with millions of other planes? What will air traffic control be like when there are millions of flying cars in the air?

Unless they have vertical lift capability, they will still have to all take off and land somewhere. You can't just get into your flying car and go across town to pick up a quart of milk.

I am going to predict right now that THERE WILL NEVER BE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF FLYING CARS. There will be a small number for wealthy fools and enthusiasts, and they will still need to use airstrips for takeoff and landing. They will be nothing more than a toy for rich idiots.

Thank you for displaying your own stupidity.
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Giz » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:33 am

shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:15 pm
xouper wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:51 pm
shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm
Just like flying cars, absolute lunacy. People already cause too many accidents in two dimensions. And when your vehicle fails, you can't pull over to the shoulder. You go straight to the ground and your death. Also, a significant increase in fuel consumption.
Giz wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 pm
But it reduces congestion. And once if the self driving cars tech has ever gets the bugs worked out, this could be the next step!
shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:55 pm
Good luck with that. Even with it, almost every accident ends in fatality(ies). Also, I forgot to mention the increase in noise pollution, and light pollution at night.
Shemp is wrong in claiming aviation failures almost always end in fatalities. Not to mention that such failures are less common than failures in ground vehicles (cars, etc). More specifically, it is seldom true that if your aviation vehicle fails, "You go straight to the ground and your death." I know this from first hand experience as a pilot.

To be fair, Shemp is partly correct about the fuel consumption of helicopters versus cars. However, since most people willingly trade money for convenience on a daily basis, such a "complaint" is a non-starter. Example: A car uses significantly more fuel than a bicycle, and yet people willingly pay extra for the advantage of a car over a bicycle.

Noise pollution can be solved. Shemp's complaint about light pollution is bullshit.

Shemp is free to avoid flying if he so chooses. He is also entitled to express his paranoid and ignorant opinions about those who choose to fly. And we are entitled to dismiss his objections as nonsense.
How many millions of cars are there on U.S. roads at any one time? What will it be like when they're all in the air at the same time?

When you fly your plane, are you in the air with millions of other planes? What will air traffic control be like when there are millions of flying cars in the air?

Unless they have vertical lift capability, they will still have to all take off and land somewhere. You can't just get into your flying car and go across town to pick up a quart of milk.

I am going to predict right now that THERE WILL NEVER BE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF FLYING CARS. There will be a small number for wealthy fools and enthusiasts, and they will still need to use airstrips for takeoff and landing. They will be nothing more than a toy for rich idiots.

Thank you for displaying your own stupidity.
Pretty sure horse riding luddites said the same thing about vehicles with combustion engines rather than quadrupeds.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by xouper » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:53 am

shemp wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:15 pm
How many millions of cars are there on U.S. roads at any one time? What will it be like when they're all in the air at the same time?

When you fly your plane, are you in the air with millions of other planes? What will air traffic control be like when there are millions of flying cars in the air?

Unless they have vertical lift capability, they will still have to all take off and land somewhere. You can't just get into your flying car and go across town to pick up a quart of milk.

I am going to predict right now that THERE WILL NEVER BE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF FLYING CARS. There will be a small number for wealthy fools and enthusiasts, and they will still need to use airstrips for takeoff and landing. They will be nothing more than a toy for rich idiots.

Thank you for displaying your own stupidity.
Moving the goalposts much? The question was not about flying cars. It was about personal helicopters, which are not that expensive and are available now.

I find it interesting that someone who is ignorant of aviation thinks they can challenge or belittle the informed opinions of an experienced pilot.

And by "interesting" I mean "utterly moronic".

As I said, you are always free to not fly in these things if they scare you that much. But those of us who do fly will simply dismiss your ignorant blatherings and continue to use a useful technology.

There are doers and naysayers. I prefer to be a doer. We can all see what your choice is.

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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by ed » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:54 am

xouper wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:55 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:45 pm
What happens if you don't stop flying your ultralight over the crowded city?

Just more fines which are part the cost of commuting that way? :lmao:
If you have an authoritative source for your claims, then post it.

Edited to add:

I once landed my ultralight at the Denny's in the Fox Valley Mall (there was an empty grass field where the OfficeMax building is now). When I came out after eating lunch, there were several people including a local police officer by my airplane. The officer asked me a few questions and then I flew away. Was I in violation of flying over a "congested area"? Maybe, maybe not. I probably could not do that today since that area is much more "congested" than it was then.
No particular source but there are zoning laws that will supersede the FAA, just as local gun laws supersede the ATF.

I recall a long time ago when they wanted to (re?) introduce helicopter service from an East River Pier in NYC. As I recall there were a bunch of noise and other things that came up. Also when the helicopter crashed on top of the PanAm building, I recall that service was ended right quick and that was NYC.

Just cuz the feds say you can do something does not mean that you really can.
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Re: Abdul's official "The past is a foreign country" thread.

Post by Witness » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:14 am

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