And now, Louis C.K.

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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by Captain » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:01 pm

shuize wrote:
His own statement pointed out something super important--that sometimes there is more going with the consent issue than the immediate question of agreement. It's more obvious in cases of employer-employee or a formal power imbalance, but even informally -- he had a certain power in that situation and exploited it to wedge in consent. It may not be illegal but he did take advantage and he was right to apologize for it.
I understand consent may not be freely given due to a power imbalance (e.g. Presidents and White House interns, etc.). But I'm also having a hard time equating Louis C.K. asking two women to his hotel room and then asking them if he can take his dick out (weird though it sounds) to anything like "pardon me while I attempt to rape you while you sleep ... It's okay, I'm gay," Kevin Spacey is alleged to have done.

In my opinion, if the women were free to leave, it doesn't seem like it should amount to a career ending offense.
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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by ed » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:18 pm

shuize wrote:if the women were free to leave
Were they? That is the problem with a power imbalance, "free to leave" is something a slimey defense attorney (sorry CH) would claim. I think it depends on circumstances.
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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by shuize » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:48 am

ed wrote:Were they? That is the problem with a power imbalance, "free to leave" is something a slimey defense attorney (sorry CH) would claim. I think it depends on circumstances.
I guess my biggest issue would be whether he waited long enough to give them a chance to say “No” before whipping it out.

I’m not really convinced by the “power imbalance” argument in this case.

Was Louis C.K. so famous 15 years ago that he could have ruined their careers for not agreeing to watch him jerk off?

Besides, comedians are an odd bunch. Maybe they were willing. How’s he supposed to know if he doesn’t ask?

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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by Carr » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:13 am

[youtube][/youtube]

I hope you won't be a hard case.
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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by gnome » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:32 am

shuize wrote:
I’m not really convinced by the “power imbalance” argument in this case.
You're arguing against Louis himself if you aren't convinced of the power imbalance issue.
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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by shuize » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:06 pm

gnome wrote:You're arguing against Louis himself if you aren't convinced of the power imbalance issue.
No doubt Louis C.K. is much more media savvy than I am, too.

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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by ed » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:06 pm

shuize wrote:
ed wrote:Were they? That is the problem with a power imbalance, "free to leave" is something a slimey defense attorney (sorry CH) would claim. I think it depends on circumstances.
I guess my biggest issue would be whether he waited long enough to give them a chance to say “No” before whipping it out.

I’m not really convinced by the “power imbalance” argument in this case.

Was Louis C.K. so famous 15 years ago that he could have ruined their careers for not agreeing to watch him jerk off?

Besides, comedians are an odd bunch. Maybe they were willing. How’s he supposed to know if he doesn’t ask?
Thinking about it a bit more ... if the individual perceives a power imbalance it is sorta like the left demanding that colleges or government make them "feel safe". You are then dealing with personality issues, not a reality that can be dealt with by government except in the most nightmarish 1984 ways.

If one can stand up and walk and one does not, after fair warning, then I am inclined to think that it is on them. As the trope goes: "you have to advocate for yourself". And our colleges are certainly not creating citizens with balls.
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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by gnome » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:25 pm

In a case like this, I don't think it is a matter of authorities to resolve. It can still be wrong and he was correct to apologize, and it can still affect how marketable his personality is. No enforcement required.
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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by shuize » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:58 pm

All things considered, this Louis C.K. clip made me laugh:


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Re: And now, Louis C.K.

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:31 pm

Louie CK wrote:What's the worst that can happen, after all.
Bravo.