## This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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ed
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### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

DrMatt wrote:Has that ever been successfully applied to Christian Scientists?

Are public schools still able to require that their students be vaccinated? Isn't that widely considered governmental overreach into the realm of the free market? Aren't public schools themselves considered overreach?
In my district at lease kids need proof of vaccination to be enrolled. They don't HAVE to be vaccinated if they, for example, are home schooled. One of my kids goes to private school and he had to be vaccinated. No idea if all schools require it.
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### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

ed wrote:
DrMatt wrote:Has that ever been successfully applied to Christian Scientists?

Are public schools still able to require that their students be vaccinated? Isn't that widely considered governmental overreach into the realm of the free market? Aren't public schools themselves considered overreach?
In my district at lease kids need proof of vaccination to be enrolled. They don't HAVE to be vaccinated if they, for example, are home schooled. One of my kids goes to private school and he had to be vaccinated. No idea if all schools require it.
Most states have waivers for medical and religious reasons, and many states have waivers for philosophical reasons. This is of course w/r/t public school systems and I don't think the same applies to private schools, who can apply their own standards as they see fit.

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Bill Gates interview (His foundation is spending $10 billion on vaccines, btw.) Gates: Well, Dr. Wakefield has been shown to have used absolutely fraudulent data. He had a financial interest in some lawsuits, he created a fake paper, the journal allowed it to run. All the other studies were done, showed no connection whatsoever again and again and again. So it's an absolute lie that has killed thousands of kids. Because the mothers who heard that lie, many of them didn't have their kids take either pertussis or measles vaccine, and their children are dead today. And so the people who go and engage in those anti-vaccine efforts -- you know, they, they kill children. It's a very sad thing, because these vaccines are important. How come Wakefield still gets the "Dr." honorific? Even from critics. Wasn't he stripped of his medical license? [/peeve] A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare DrMatt BANNED Posts: 29811 Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm Location: Location: Location! Has thanked: 143 times Been thanked: 70 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism A doctorate is an academic standing that doesn't require license to practice. If you finish law school but don't practice, you don't get stripped of your JD for failing to join a bar. Grayman wrote:If masturbation led to homosexuality you'd think by now I'd at least have better fashion sense. Doctor X Posts: 67554 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3394 times Been thanked: 2157 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism Anaxagoras wrote:How come Wakefield still gets the "Dr." honorific? Even from critics. Wasn't he stripped of his medical license? [/peeve] You keep the degree, but in England, nearly all have an undergraduate degree and are called "doctor" by convention--until they become a Fellow of the respective Royal Society and are called "Mister." Funny convention of particularly surgeons that dates back to competition with the barber-surgeons. In England, an "M.D." is an actual doctorate requiring a dissertation. Thanks for the linkypoo! --J.D. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! AL Champions!!! Doctor X Posts: 67554 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3394 times Been thanked: 2157 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism More from QuackWatch: New books attack autism and antivaccination quackery. During the past few months three excellent books about autism quackery and vaccination opponents have been published: The Panic Virus: A True Story of Medicine, Science, and Fears by Seth Mnookin describes the history of opposition to vaccination with emphasis on autism-related fearmongering and the de-licensing of Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Amazon.com: The Panic Virus: A True Story of Medicine, Science, and Fear (9781439158647): Seth Mnookin: Books Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All by Paul A. Offit, M.D., Ph.D. focuses on the people and organizations that have been most influential in spreading fear and confusion among American parents. Amazon.com: Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All (9780465021499): Paul A. Offit M.D.: Books Vaccines and Your Child: Separating Fact from Fiction by Paul A. Offit, M.D., Ph.D. provides answers to more than 50 questions parents may ask. Amazon.com: Vaccines and Your Child: Separating Fact from Fiction (9780231153072): Paul A. Offit, Charlotte A. Moser: Books ### Anti-vax group crtiqued. Quackwatch has posted notes on the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs (CoMeD), a group "dedicated to reducing the mercury-exposure risks, for the unborn, infants, children, adolescents and adults, from all mercury-containing medical products to which they are, or may be, exposed." Some Notes on the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs (CoMeD Founded and led mainly by Dr. Mark Geier and his son David Geier, CoMeD's main goal has been to to rid the marketplace of all vaccines that contain thimerosal, a preservative that contains trace amounts of mercury. In 2008, the FDA dismissed a CoMeD citizen petition after concluding that its contentions were legally and scientifically unsupportable by either law or science and that the drug products that still contained mercury preservatives were safe. CoMeD then sued, but a U.S. District Court judge concluded that the plaintiffs lacked standing to sue. CoMeD is appealing the dismissal, but there is no reason to think that its suit is winnable. Meanwhile, the Geiers are facing regulatory action by the Maryland Board of Medicine. Seth Mnookin wrote the fantastic Feeding the Monster about the selling of the Red Sox, the fights to change the team philosophies, all the way to the winning of the 2004 WS. I particularly enjoyed the part in 2003 when Grady Little infamously left Pedro Martinez in Game 7 of the ALCS after 100 pitches--despite being buried in statistics all through the year such that EVERYONE knew he should come out at that point--he got shelled . . . Aaron Fuckin' Boone . . . Sox lose!: [Red Sox lead 5-2 bottom of the 8th--Ed.] When Pedro Martinez returned to the mound in the eighth inning of Game 7, John Henry [Principle owner of the Red Sox--Ed.] felt as if he was spent; hell, Henry thought, any sentient being watching the game knew the pitcher was cooked. He looked over at [Theo--Ed.] Epstein [General manager--Ed.], sitting a couple of sections away, and the two men caught each other's eye. Epstein gave a little shrug, as if to say, "I have no idea what he's doing out there, either." [Bad things happen.--Ed.] The score was now 5-3. Now, finally, Little shuffled out of the dugout and over to the mound, where he conferred with Martinez. In his seat, Henry was beside himself. At least, he reassured himself, there's still a two-run lead and Martinez was finally coming out of the game. Then, inexplicably, Little walked back to the dugout alone, leaving Martinez on the mound to face the dangerous Matsui. Henry turned to Lucchino [Other owner--Ed.]. "Can we fire [Little] right now?" Henry asked. "I felt pure rage," . . . Pedro gets shelled, MFYs win, Little gets fired pretty much immediately. --J.D. Reference Mnookin, S. Feeding the Monster: How Money, Smarts, and Nerve Took a Team to the Top. New York: Simon & Schuster Paperbacks, 2007. --J.D. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! AL Champions!!! DrMatt BANNED Posts: 29811 Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm Location: Location: Location! Has thanked: 143 times Been thanked: 70 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism This weekend I was privy to a group of basically intelligent mothers talking about the lengths they went through to avoid having their children vaccinated. They carried on about animal-sourced vaccines and mercury and how mumps, measles, rubella, and chicken pox are not that bad, after all. I didn't have enough of their trust to speak up, but I did get an education in how folklore displaces evidence in people's view of wisdom. And I must admit to having read a fair bit of folkloric "wisdom" here on S.C. Now, I don't remember having had chicken pox as a kid, but I'm fairly certain I did have it. As an adult, I've had shingles--the same virus staging a comeback from its hiding place in the nervous system. Shingles was damned painful, and that's just in the classic place in the mid-spine. It can strike at the top of the neck or on the skull, causing blindness. It can strike all over. And when it strikes, it tries to spread itself. If I could have had the vaccine instead, I would definitely have opted for it. Grayman wrote:If masturbation led to homosexuality you'd think by now I'd at least have better fashion sense. Doctor X Posts: 67554 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3394 times Been thanked: 2157 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism From QuackWatch Study Looks at Vaccine Hesitancy: A study of 376 responses to a prominent survey has found that most parents take their children for recommended vaccinations, but there are widespread fears that vaccines cause autism and that children are getting too many vaccines at once. [Kennedy A and others. Confidence about vaccines in the United States: understanding parents' perceptions. Health Affairs 30:1151-1159, 2011] http://content.healthaffairs.org/conten ... 1.abstract A book review in the same journal issue identified reasons for these unfounded fears: http://content.healthaffairs.org/conten ... 05.extract **By giving equal airtime on television shows such as Oprah to the likes of actress Jenny McCarthy and other celebrities to inveigh against vaccination, and by treating the facts about vaccine safety as if they were still in dispute, the media foster fear and confusion. **Parents bombarded with mixed messages about the dangers of technology-are more likely to listen to emotional narratives and charged stories than to reasoned evidence about what is right for our children. **The media, technophobia, irresponsible doctors, and an increasingly risk-averse middle and upper class have all played key roles. **Andrew Wakefield's report, which ran in the Lancet, may have been be "the flimsiest, most underpowered study supporting a conclusion of monumental importance to appear in a leading peer-reviewed journal in the past fifty years." **Bernadine Healy, M.D., former director of the National Institutes of Health, is quoted repeatedly by anti-vaccinators as having serious qualms about vaccine safety. **Medical schools are not teaching students how to engage parental worries about vaccine safety. **Public health agencies have not pulled their weight in the vaccine wars. Those in charge do not speak out forcefully and vehemently in support of vaccines. For more about vaccine fears, see: **Gerber JS, Offit PA. Vaccines and autism: A tale of shifting hypotheses. Clinical Infectious Diseases 48:456-461, 2009. http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full **Offit PA, Moser, CA. The problem with Dr Bob's alternative vaccine schedule. Pediatrics 123e164-e169, 2009. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... /e164.full --J.D. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! AL Champions!!! Pyrrho Posts: 25882 Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am Title: Man in Black Location: Division 6 Has thanked: 2714 times Been thanked: 2767 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus. Philip Posts: 1084 Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:56 am ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism I normally like the Colbert Report, but the name chosen for the fake medicine in this clip makes me think the show has an anti-vaccination writer. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... vaxamalgam scarlet_35: I'm feeling more and more like the world is a really fucked up place DrMatt: Well, yes, it is, but that makes it a heck of an opportunity for unupfuckers. Doctor X Posts: 67554 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3394 times Been thanked: 2157 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism I lost all respect for Colbert when he felt he was "too important" to work with people who gave him work before he was "too important." --J.D. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! AL Champions!!! sparks Posts: 14017 Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over! Has thanked: 1926 times Been thanked: 593 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism Doctor X wrote:I lost all respect for Colbert when he felt he was "too important" to work with people who gave him work before he was "too important." --J.D. He does appear quite full of himself, but isn't that his shtick? You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think. Doctor X Posts: 67554 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3394 times Been thanked: 2157 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism "Shtick" ceases to be "shtick" when it is a part of one's character. --J.D. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! AL Champions!!! gnome Posts: 22086 Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am Location: New Port Richey, FL Has thanked: 362 times Been thanked: 394 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism Linky on that situation? "If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!" --Soldier, TF2 Doctor X Posts: 67554 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3394 times Been thanked: 2157 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism Good article in this weeks The Economist. Roughly 455 infants sent to the hospital with whooping cough of which 10 died from it in 2011. --J.D. P.S. Not a bad post to make for one's 35,000th Post! P.P.S. Which is significant. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! AL Champions!!! Anaxagoras Posts: 21506 Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan Has thanked: 1394 times Been thanked: 1188 times ### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism The NY Times focuses on an odd aspect: cutbacks in state health budgets. The article doesn't really mention, except obliquely, the root cause of the problem. Cutbacks Hurt a State’s Response to Whooping Cough The response to the epidemic has been hampered by the recession, which has left state and local health departments on the front lines of defense weakened by years of sustained budget cuts. Here in Skagit County, about an hour’s drive north of Seattle — the hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita — the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008. Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly gone. The county’s top medical officer, Dr. Howard Leibrand, who is also a full-time emergency room physician, said that in the crushing triage of a combined health crisis and budget crisis, he had gone so far as to urge local physicians to stop testing patients to confirm a whooping cough diagnosis. If the signs are there, he said — especially a persistent, deep cough and indication of contact with a confirmed victim — doctors should simply treat patients with antibiotics. The pertussis test can cost up to$400 and delay treatment by days. About 14.6 percent of Skagit County residents have no health insurance, according to a state study conducted last year, up from 11.6 percent in 2008.

“There has been half a million dollars spent on testing in this county,” Dr. Leibrand said late last week. “Do you know how much vaccination you can buy for half a million dollars?” And testing, he added, benefits only the epidemiologists, not the patients. “It’s an outrageous way to spend your health care dollar.”
I would say that the problem is not the cutbacks, but how the money is spent. It would be better spent on cheap vaccines than \$400 tests for pertussis.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Grayman wrote:If masturbation led to homosexuality you'd think by now I'd at least have better fashion sense.

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### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

DrMatt wrote:Still no updates on Quackwatch.
Latest is that the Discovery Phase has been extended by 3 months.
Grayman wrote:If masturbation led to homosexuality you'd think by now I'd at least have better fashion sense.

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### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

A good editorial on Bloomberg:

Make It Hard for Parents to Deny Their Kids Vaccines
The U.S. this year is set to have the worst outbreak of whooping cough since the 1970s. Already, from January to mid-July, there have been 17,000 registered cases and nine deaths.

Like the whoop that punctuates the cough, this number is a warning that something is very wrong. The increase, researchers suspect, is partly due to the waning effect of whooping cough vaccines introduced in the 1990s to replace older formulations. It’s also connected to the rising number of parents who refuse to get their children immunized because of a dangerously misinformed belief that vaccines are more harmful than the diseases they prevent.

The problem is illustrated by Washington state, ground zero of the outbreak. Overall, Washington has a good record of vaccinating kids for whooping cough, also called pertussis. Yet performance varies by community. In San Juan County, in the northwest of the state, only 52 percent of kindergartners and 4 percent of sixth-graders were up-to-date on their pertussis shots for the 2010-2011 school year. Not surprisingly, the incidence of the disease there is elevated.

This pattern is repeated across the country. Because the U.S. has made great strides in making vaccines available and inexpensive, immunization rates overall are at an all-time high. You might think this would create the herd immunity for which health workers aim: When a sufficient portion of a population (generally, 90 percent) is vaccinated, the pathogen can’t easily transmit in a community, so it dies off. What has happened, however, is that holes in the protective cover have opened as geographic clusters of parents, such as the one in San Juan County or another around Boulder, Colorado, have rejected vaccines. These communities are disproportionately white, educated and well-off.

Their children are at much higher risk of illness; they are 35 times more likely to get measles, for instance. Once infected, they spread disease to others, including those who for medical reasons can’t be vaccinated, those for whom a given vaccine doesn’t work, and infants too young to be vaccinated. Babies account for most of the pertussis deaths this year.

Pertussis and measles are the first of the childhood diseases to make a comeback in the face of vaccination refusals, probably because they are especially contagious. Last year, the U.S. recorded 222 measles cases instead of the usual 60.

Since the early 1980s, every state has required children to be inoculated against childhood diseases before they are admitted to school, unless they have a medical exclusion. Forty- eight states allow religious exemptions as well and 20, philosophical ones. The use of these waivers has grown as more parents are fooled by overhyped, inaccurate reports of vaccine risks, most notoriously a bogus 1998 study -- since retracted by its publisher -- linking the mumps, measles and rubella vaccine to autism.

Some health experts have argued that states should abolish all but the medical waivers. After all, courts have consistently upheld vaccine mandates. Striking down a religious exemption, the Mississippi Supreme Court said the state had an “overriding and compelling public interest” to protect children, even when it conflicts with the religious rights of parents.
I wish it was the case that only people who refused the vaccines suffered the consequences themselves, but that is clearly not the case. The most vulnerable are babies too young to be vaccinated. So the victims of this are not necessarily the same people who are causing it. I don't buy the religious and philosophical objections excuse when somebody else has to pay the price.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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### Re: This Just in . . . Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

I think that sending the refusing parents to jail and taking away their kids and getting those kids up to date on their vaccinations is entirely within the ethical reach of a liberty-loving state...and should be done at the federal level with no room for local exclusion. I think treating the refusing parents as terrorists is not all that far out of bound.
People from the loony wing label me rightist or leftist for saying that. Hey, folks, welcome into the 1890s. The world has passed you by.
Grayman wrote:If masturbation led to homosexuality you'd think by now I'd at least have better fashion sense.