Does supplemental protein really work?

Ever had it before? Well you got it again.
User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:50 pm

Since August of 2011 I consume supplemental protein in the form of whey extract (the product being USN 100% whey protein) as part of a high-carbohydrate diet. The package claims itself to be a remarkably pure product, with an assortment of amino acids included. I consume the amount as appropriate for my weight and I work my arms and other areas quite regularly (2-3 times per week), taking breaks lasting 48 hours between workouts. My aim is to bulk up my shoulders, back, and arms but I have not noticed much of an improvement aside from strength. I perform approx. 2 reps of 200 in push-ups and the same applies for sit-ups along with 2 reps of 25 for each arm with a 5 kg weight. I'm gaining strength very rapidly, but not mass. Granted, I will admit that I do feel much healthier, though the product has not noticeably increased my recovery time or my stamina. I may add that this was not a cheap product. Has supplemental protein ever been proven to work to the extent it is often claimed?
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12250
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1311 times
Been thanked: 386 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby sparks » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:30 pm

Don't know about the claims you've seen, but............

I've read that in order to 'bulk up' you need fewer reps of higher weight/resistance.
Nice things? Hell no!

Board Crumbmuffin.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 19388
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1144 times
Been thanked: 897 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:52 pm

sparks wrote:Don't know about the claims you've seen, but............

I've read that in order to 'bulk up' you need fewer reps of higher weight/resistance.


This.

How old are you btw? Because age makes a difference too.

Personally I'd rather be well toned with moderate bulk than going for the Arnold S. look.
You know that guys who look like that have to take steroids to get that way.

I bet you actually do look quite different than before you started, but it happens so gradually that you can't tell the difference from week to week.

As far as supplemental protein, I'm not knowledgeable enough to be certain but I would bet that you can get enough in your diet without buying special protein shakes. You do need extra calories if you want to gain weight though.

But yeah, fewer reps with more weight. Do you have a gym membership?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 19388
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1144 times
Been thanked: 897 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:02 am

One other idea.

Your body contains hundreds of muscles. If you are only doing a few exercises, even with lots of reps, you are probably missing a lot of them. It's why you probably need to join a gym if you want to take it to the next level.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 64597
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 2796 times
Been thanked: 1761 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Doctor X » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:06 am

Yeah, if you can do two reps of 200 push ups, lifting 5 kg weights are like carrying around a piece of paper.

I am hardly an expert at the "Iron Pill," but more than one trainer in different states recommended figuring out your "max weight" for a given machine/free. If using free weight, make sure you have a spotter. You are looking for the maximum weight you can move a full repetition. Obviously, you should work your way up. Use about two-thirds of that weight as your repetition weight for which you do about 12-15ish reps.

Now how many sets and all of that I will leave to the more diligent. I tend to do it about every other day.

I am unaware of protein shakes doing anything. Where supplements and the like may help is if you are an actual training athlete and do not want to eat a ton of natural protein. Given the low weight you are using, you do not need any supplements.

It is not a strict comparison, but say you weigh 150 lbs. If you can do 200 pushups you should be able to bench 150 lbs!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! ImageStanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 23946
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6
Has thanked: 2385 times
Been thanked: 2266 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:52 am

If I remember correctly, "bulking up" muscle won't happen unless you progress to heavier weights as Doctor X indicates, probably 7 kg and up, because 5 kg probably isn't enough to strain your muscle. Building muscle requires that you work to the point of straining the muscle fiber, i.e. a "burn". High reps with low weight might do that and it might not, or it might help with definition but not build much muscle fiber.

Muscle requires "off" days to recover and build new muscle. You can eat all the protein supplements you want and you will not "bulk up" muscle unless you work the muscle enough in the first place. The excess calories could result in a different kind of bulking up.

Or you could inject garbage into your arms like this idiot:

Image

That's not muscle. That's stupidity. However I think he's safe from being strangled by a nerd.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12250
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1311 times
Been thanked: 386 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby sparks » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:18 am

What the fuck is that guy smiling about? Poor bastards about to die from Bicep Tumors!!!11Eleventy

BTW--just finished a 6 mile run..........but that belongs in the workout thread.
Nice things? Hell no!

Board Crumbmuffin.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 19388
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1144 times
Been thanked: 897 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:24 am

I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with real biceps tumors.

Does anyone know the story behind that photo? Some kind of implants like women use to augment their breasts?

I guess there's ass implants too, aren't there?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:30 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
sparks wrote:Don't know about the claims you've seen, but............

I've read that in order to 'bulk up' you need fewer reps of higher weight/resistance.


This.

How old are you btw? Because age makes a difference too.

Personally I'd rather be well toned with moderate bulk than going for the Arnold S. look.
You know that guys who look like that have to take steroids to get that way.

I bet you actually do look quite different than before you started, but it happens so gradually that you can't tell the difference from week to week.

As far as supplemental protein, I'm not knowledgeable enough to be certain but I would bet that you can get enough in your diet without buying special protein shakes. You do need extra calories if you want to gain weight though.

But yeah, fewer reps with more weight. Do you have a gym membership?


I'm twenty years old. I don't want the ''steroids'' look, I want to fill myself out. Strength is not an issue - bulk is. My natural physique includes an abnormally narrow frame which also includes my shoulders so I appear immature and I want to work on that. My arms are definitely more toned, but that's it. I'm a vegetarian, so my normal diet isn't protein-enriched, which is why I turned to supplemental 3rd-grade protein. I do not possess a gym membership at this time but I do have the intention on getting one.

As for straining the muscles, I finish when I physically cannot do anymore. By the time I am finished my muscles are sore and I can't do a single push-up, not sure if that's going too far, but I remember being informed that is necessary. I'd do heavy weightlifting but I have a dodgy back which is why I'm trying to strengthen my back muscles on the side.
Last edited by Miles on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 19279
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 577 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby corplinx » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:45 pm

You don't reach swolehallah without saying wheymen bro.

You gotta get your protein.

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 64597
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 2796 times
Been thanked: 1761 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Doctor X » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:53 pm

Miles wrote:I'm twenty years old.

I'm a vegetarian, . . . why I turned to supplemental 3rd-grade protein.

I have a dodgy back


Kindly define "dodgy back" and "3rd-grade protein."

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! ImageStanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! Image

User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:05 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Miles wrote:I'm twenty years old.

I'm a vegetarian, . . . why I turned to supplemental 3rd-grade protein.

I have a dodgy back


Kindly define "dodgy back" and "3rd-grade protein."

--J.D.


Apologies, I meant 2nd-grade protein. ''Grade'' is really just a term for the source of the protein. It isn't important unless you're a vegan or vegetarian. Technically whey is milk serum remaining after milk has been curdled and strained, the protein sourced from meat directly is known as 1st-grade protein and vegetable/fruit-based protein is known as 3rd-grade protein. Eggs and milk are 2nd-grade. That's something my nutritionist told me when discussing issues with being a vegetarian and bulking up, so take it with a pinch of salt.

By ''dodgy back'', I have an area constructing my spine where my vertebrae are thinner than they should be (spondylolysis), and they curve forwards, so I was advised by my orthopaedist against heavy weightlifting until my back muscles are strong enough to fully support my spine when lifting heavy weights. The muscles in my back are also the slowest at gaining strength which is why I'm putting emphasis on strengthening them.
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 64597
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 2796 times
Been thanked: 1761 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Doctor X » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:59 pm

Miles wrote:. . . and vegetable/fruit-based protein is known as 3rd-grade protein.


There is a problem. Not to enter into a whole "meat versus vegetarian/vegan" but the human body is not designed to be vegetarian. It is also not designed to be sitting on its ass eating bacon double cheeseburgers tempted by a thin-waif-like red-headed siren designed to replace the actual inspiration for the avatar of the company because she is a disgusting fat-ass whose father was also a fat-ass who, predictably, died of cardiovascular disease since it makes better sense to try to convince people an unhealthy diet makes you thin and sexy and not a disgusting fat-ass for whom middle age will be 25.

But I digress.

There is a great deal of "woo" and "stupid" in nutrition. So you have to be careful to make sure you are actually getting supplements to replace what you miss from not eating cute and incredibly tasty critters.

But the taste and joy . . . you never replace that.

Never.

By ''dodgy back'', I have an area constructing my spine where my vertebrae are thinner than they should be (spondylolysis), . . .


"Area constructing my spine" "vertebrae are thinner than they should be" . . . I assume that was a typographical error and you mean "constricting" your "spine." Taking "spondylolysis" as correct that means you have--like many--a thin portion the posterior vertebral elements known as the pars interarticularis. Spondylolysis results from fracture of these. In the young, there is genetic predisposition, but the condition usually results from sports. "Classic case" is a female gymnist.

Neat.

If I have translated that correctly then:

orthopaedist against heavy weightlifting until my back muscles are strong enough to fully support my spine when lifting heavy weights.


makes some sense in that he is concerned that, over time, you may develop spondylolithesis where your L5 [Fifth lumbar vertebra.--Ed.] moves progressively forward over your S1 [First sacral vertebra.--Ed.]. This happens with bilateral spondylolysis. The "constriction" is the resultant decrease in the canal width which contains not spinal cord but nerve roots. Add in damaged disc, you get all sorts of opportunities for nerve root irritation.

Assuming all of that is the situation, he is worried about lifting significant weight of which 5 and 10 lbs are not.

However, obtaining medical advice on Al Gore's interwebs is as reliable as obtaining legal advice. Heck, one "lawyer" HERE will tell you you can drive on a suspended license if your lawyer can get you off the charge that suspended your license. Do not get us started on copyright kojiwreicht law.

Nevertheless:

The muscles in my back are also the slowest at gaining strength which is why I'm putting emphasis on strengthening them.


Depends very much on how you are strenghthening them. If it involves the same level of weight training you are doing now, I am not surprised. I would suggest you ask your orthopedist to refer you to a reliable physical therapist--particularly one who deals with athletes and not just getting grandma back on her bar stool--to outline a proper exercise regime as a foundation for your basic goals.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! ImageStanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! Image

User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:17 pm

I'm not a vegetarian because I want to be, I just happen to dislike the overall taste and texture of meat, so I avoid things associated with it. The next time I visit my orthopedist, I'll ask. Small weights are fine because most of the emphasis is on my shoulders and biceps, but heavy weightlifting seems to be much more effective for what I want to achieve. I also need to be careful of losing too much body fat.

As for the product, it appears to be rather popular - it's a product from USN, and I recall it being recommended to me. I bought the whey version. I didn't purchase some dodgy product from an alt-med website. :wink:

I'm currently at 47 KG, goal is 60-70 KG.
Last edited by Miles on Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014

HghrSymmetry
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:20 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby HghrSymmetry » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:25 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with real biceps tumors.

Does anyone know the story behind that photo? Some kind of implants like women use to augment their breasts?

I guess there's ass implants too, aren't there?


http://acidcow.com/pics/5770-victims-of ... -pics.html
Warning! I post like you do.

User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:27 pm

HghrSymmetry wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with real biceps tumors.

Does anyone know the story behind that photo? Some kind of implants like women use to augment their breasts?

I guess there's ass implants too, aren't there?


http://acidcow.com/pics/5770-victims-of ... -pics.html


It amazes me how someone can look at themselves in a mirror and think that actually looks good. :shock:
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 64597
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 2796 times
Been thanked: 1761 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Doctor X » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:34 pm

Which is 103.4 lbs in Winner's Weight and roughly 3 stone for those who have rum, sodomy, and the lash but no central heating or, frankly, cuisine not acquired by colonization.

Ideal weight for Super Model if we subtract the silicon. But I digress again.

Given your age--without knowing your height--you are underweight and are basically trying to put on the equivalent of half your current weight in muscle. I do not generally fault the underweight unless there is some cause such as cancer, crystal meth, anorexia nervosa, too much angst and the like; however, I doubt you have much body fat left to lose.

To which, unless you tell me you were a high-impact athlete who requires sweltitude such as a figure skater, I must ask if your fingers are long and you are "double-jointed."

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! ImageStanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! Image

User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:39 pm

I'm small, standing at about 5 foot and 5 inches. That puts my BMI at about 17. I've always been very light despite the fact that I eat more than the average individual (which is mostly carbs, fruit, and fat). My body fat percentage lingers around 5-8%, which is why I bought the whey version since it contains more fat per kg than the pure protein version. I'm unaware of a medical condition which could cause my weight to be so low and my GP chalked it up to genetics since a lot of members in my family are very light despite their dietary preferences.
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 64597
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 2796 times
Been thanked: 1761 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Doctor X » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:04 pm

Miles wrote:I'm small, standing at about 5 foot and 5 inches. That puts my BMI at about 17.


17.2 kg/m2 to be precise [He has a calculator with a BMI function.--Ed.] Shh! You are correct your target weight to be about 50-68 kgs.

At 5' 5" you suggest you do not have the "Zebra" condition I considered. Assuming your:

GP chalked it up to genetics since a lot of members in my family are very light despite their dietary preferences.


is sufficiently competent to rule out that tape worm and hyperthyroidism then I would not suggest worrying about putting on fat. Since you are in The Land of National Health I would get the proper referral to a physical therapist as suggested as well as a nutritionist. Getting suggestions of the interwebz may be reliable, but it may be bullshit.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! ImageStanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! Image

User avatar
Miles
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:25 am
Title: Kilometre's half-brother
Location: England
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Does supplemental protein really work?

Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:06 pm

Hyperthyroidism was suggested, but subsequently ruled out after extensive testing, as were parasites. I haven't visited my nutritionist in years, so I'll also mention that. It just appears that I have a very high basal metabolic rate.
I'm allergic to woo. I break out into rant. --Miles B. 07/04/2014

AHHHHHH, SHADAP!!!!! -- JasonAristotle 07/04/2014


Return to “Medicine, Health, & Nutrition”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 0 guests