Mito or Munchausen's

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Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:22 pm

Have you heard about this case?

Mitochondrial Disease or Medical Child Abuse?

It's kinda fascinating.

I feel sorry for the poor girl in either case.
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by corplinx » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:46 pm

This case has been discussed to death in several other places I go to. The Slate article tries so hard to be balanced, it nearly tips over.

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:05 pm

Who the fuck knows? Is the kid in pain or not? Is it the hospital's assertion that the child is being poisoned? Having been separated, is the kid better? She's 14, not 4. Just ask her.

I might add, what 14 year old is not agitated by the presence of her parents?

I don't see a way to come down off this fence.

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by corplinx » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:27 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Who the fuck knows? Is the kid in pain or not? Is it the hospital's assertion that the child is being poisoned? Having been separated, is the kid better? She's 14, not 4. Just ask her.

I might add, what 14 year old is not agitated by the presence of her parents?

I don't see a way to come down off this fence.


Not poisoned. They think her parents doctor shopped her to get treatment for imaginary ailments that she did not have, thus subjecting her to invasive things like a digestive tract flush.

The doctor who ordered her out of her parents control at Boston General specializes in... wait for... diagnosing MBP due to parental doctor shopping.

Last I saw from this case in the papers, the child still needs the digestive flush despite months of being separated from her parent.s

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by DrMatt » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:58 pm

corplinx wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:Who the fuck knows? Is the kid in pain or not? Is it the hospital's assertion that the child is being poisoned? Having been separated, is the kid better? She's 14, not 4. Just ask her.

I might add, what 14 year old is not agitated by the presence of her parents?

I don't see a way to come down off this fence.


Not poisoned. They think her parents doctor shopped her to get treatment for imaginary ailments that she did not have, thus subjecting her to invasive things like a digestive tract flush.

The doctor who ordered her out of her parents control at Boston General specializes in... wait for... diagnosing MBP due to parental doctor shopping.

Last I saw from this case in the papers, the child still needs the digestive flush despite months of being separated from her parent.s


Wasn't it installed in such a way as to make it difficult to safely remove?
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:24 pm

corplinx wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:Who the fuck knows? Is the kid in pain or not? Is it the hospital's assertion that the child is being poisoned? Having been separated, is the kid better? She's 14, not 4. Just ask her.

I might add, what 14 year old is not agitated by the presence of her parents?

I don't see a way to come down off this fence.


Not poisoned. They think her parents doctor shopped her to get treatment for imaginary ailments that she did not have, thus subjecting her to invasive things like a digestive tract flush.

The doctor who ordered her out of her parents control at Boston General specializes in... wait for... diagnosing MBP due to parental doctor shopping.

Last I saw from this case in the papers, the child still needs the digestive flush despite months of being separated from her parent.s


Furcking surreal.

Child very sick
Parents take her to doctor, doctor can't find anything wrong.
child still very sick
another doctor, same diag.
repeat x times.

Is that doctor shopping?

What should the parent do? Oh, well if you say there's nothing wrong, I suppose we'll just let her suffer.

finally, a doctor comes up with something, real or not.

What the fuck is the parent to do? To think?

But I don't know what the hospital/judge side of the argument.

So ...

Is it just me or should we be looking sideways for the doctor that actually made the diagnosis.

And I don't know what a 'digestive track flush is' (absent obviously misleading links on google that I don't want to click or even think about) but it sounds like it involves surgery, a team of doctors, and at least one other hospital. Should we be looking sideways to all of them also?

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by DrMatt » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:57 pm

What I like is the bit where the child seems to get a little bit better when taken away from her parents.
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:28 am

DrMatt wrote:Wasn't it installed in such a way as to make it difficult to safely remove?


DrMatt wrote:What I like is the bit where the child seems to get a little bit better when taken away from her parents.


Are you referencing a link you're not sharing?

Is it that you want to be asked to share it? Must we say 'pretty please'? I'm out of cherries so ...

Or is it like an ugly girlfriend; you like talking about how swell she is but really don't want to take her out in public.

I get that.

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:02 am

corplinx wrote:The Slate article tries so hard to be balanced, it nearly tips over.


Are you saying there's an obvious reason to come down on one side instead of the balanced approach? And which side would that be?


What would Dr. House think? (I wonder if there's already a Dr. House episode along these lines? If not, there should be.)
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:24 am

Rob Lister wrote:
DrMatt wrote:Wasn't it installed in such a way as to make it difficult to safely remove?


DrMatt wrote:What I like is the bit where the child seems to get a little bit better when taken away from her parents.


Are you referencing a link you're not sharing?


Supposedly she seemed less anxious.

The other thing is that the doctors may have a reason that they aren't allowed to disclose due to patient confidentiality.
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by corplinx » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:32 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
corplinx wrote:The Slate article tries so hard to be balanced, it nearly tips over.


Are you saying there's an obvious reason to come down on one side instead of the balanced approach? And which side would that be?


What would Dr. House think? (I wonder if there's already a Dr. House episode along these lines? If not, there should be.)



I'm saying its fake balance. Boston General took these people's kid away without even consulting the physician they second guessed. That physician clamored to get an audience with the Boston General physicians who wrote off his diagnosis and procedures. They would not talk. This isn't science, its fucking egos.

The parents may be guilty as charged but Boston General has been a _bad_ _actor_ throughout.

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:01 am

corplinx wrote:I'm saying its fake balance. Boston General took these people's kid away without even consulting the physician they second guessed. That physician clamored to get an audience with the Boston General physicians who wrote off his diagnosis and procedures. They would not talk. This isn't science, its fucking egos.

The parents may be guilty as charged but Boston General has been a _bad_ _actor_ throughout.


I'll reiterate that there may be a reason they can't disclose due to patient confidentiality. What exactly that might be, I'm not qualified to guess.

Anyway, I decided to did a little deeper, as the Slate piece doesn't go into so much detail. Here's a more substantial link:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/1 ... story.html

I found certain facts here that were omitted in the Slate piece.
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by DrMatt » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:07 am

Rob Lister wrote:
DrMatt wrote:Wasn't it installed in such a way as to make it difficult to safely remove?


DrMatt wrote:What I like is the bit where the child seems to get a little bit better when taken away from her parents.


Are you referencing a link you're not sharing?

Is it that you want to be asked to share it? Must we say 'pretty please'? I'm out of cherries so ...

Or is it like an ugly girlfriend; you like talking about how swell she is but really don't want to take her out in public.

I get that.

OP
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:50 am

Anaxagoras wrote:What would Dr. House think? (I wonder if there's already a Dr. House episode along these lines? If not, there should be.)


House would have figured out it was the parents only after misdiagnosing and treating her for lupus, wilson's disease, necrosis due to Muscle death due to infarction due to clot due to aneurysm and giving her a brain biopsy and destroying her liver and kidneys. House ain't a great doctor.

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:17 pm

Another case of Munchausen's by proxy?

Mommy Blogger Lacey Spears Arrested For Fatally Poisoning Son With Sodium: Cops

We first met Lacey Spears in May, when she was under investigation over the high levels of sodium found in her 5-year-old son's body when he died. She was writing about his "courageous" battle with sickness at the time, but investigators thought she might have been slowly killing him for attention.

Now police say it's true. Spears, 26, of upstate New York, was arrested and pleaded not guilty Tuesday to charges of second-degree murder and first-degree manslaughter in the death of her son, Garnett.

The boy was in and out of the hospital his entire life for various illnesses. He died in January, and hospital workers found toxic levels of sodium in his blood. The investigation revealed that Spears took him into a hospital bathroom on Jan. 17 and again on the 19th, and administered sodium directly into a tube in the boy's stomach, according to The Journal News.

Assistant District Attorney Doreen Lloyd said in court that Spears had also searched the Internet to study what effects large amounts of salt would have on the boy. She's suspected of poisoning him at least twice.

Garnett was alert and talking on Jan. 20. His condition worsened, and he died on Jan. 23. Spears' final social media post read, "Garnett the great journeyed onward today at 10:20 a.m.," according to The New York Post.

The murder charge doesn't accuse her of intentionally killing Garnett, but of acting out of indifference toward his life. Specifically, investigators believe she was poisoning him for more attention on her blog, called "Garnett's Journey." Earlier reports called it a case of Munchhausen syndrome by proxy, a psychiatric disorder in which a parent sickens a child for sympathy.

It's unclear whether Garnett ever needed the tube in the first place. Authorities suspect Spears subjected him to his previous illnesses so she could air her sob story on her blog, Twitter and Facebook. She wrote on Facebook in November 2009 that Garnett was admitted into a hospital 23 times.
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:15 am

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by corplinx » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:37 am

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... arent.html

To catch you up on the OP.

It’s easy to follow Justina’s case on Twitter and get caught up in the outrage. What’s surprising is to read up on it and have your outrage legitimized.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/he ... story.html

Johnston wrote that the parents called Boston Children’s Hospital personnel Nazis “and claimed the hospital was punishing and killing Justina. Efforts by hospital clinicians to work with the parents were futile and never went anywhere.”


What? They took the girl out of her parents care in what they called a parent-ectomy. The girls health declined. And you are chastising them for being pissed the fuck off? What in the fucking fuck?

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:12 am

Links from March.

I just Googled and apparently she's back home now:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/0 ... story.html

Juvenile Court Judge Joseph Johnston, at the request of DCF, restored custody to the parents Tuesday, ending the case that the child welfare agency had brought against the parents, whom officials had accused of medical child abuse. On Wednesday, Justina returned to her family’s home in West Hartford, Conn., cradled in her father’s arms.

Justina’s parents and their advocates say if it is true that state officials bowed to outside pressure, then it was overdue in getting the teenager back to her home. But other observers say the stunning pace of change suggests political and legal factors were in play.

“There was such a turnaround of opinion in such a short span of time,” said a longtime child protection specialist who has followed the case closely.

The impact of this week’s events will greatly alter the life of Justina, who seems physically stable and happy to be home, but still has gastrointestinal problems and trouble walking. Her parents are now free to care for their child as they see fit without state interference.

Lou and Linda Pelletier appear to be wasting no time using that freedom, unconcerned by critics in the medical community who say they are too one-dimensional in their view of Justina’s condition. Linda Pelletier insisted in a telephone interview Wednesday that she is confident her child’s ailments are the result of a rare metabolic disorder and unrelated to psychiatric issues.


The pressure to settle the case, coming from the highest levels of state government, intensified this year. As conservative religious groups, among others, picketed the State House and brought the “Free Justina” message to radio talk shows, Governor Deval Patrick dispatched his top health official, John Polanowicz, to broker a resolution.

By that time, DCF social workers, the judge, and some of Justina’s doctors were getting threatening calls and hate mail from across the country.

A major breakthrough came when Polanowicz helped secure a pathway in mid-May for the 16-year-old to leave Massachusetts: While DCF retained custody, Justina was transferred to a residential treatment center in Connecticut closer to her parents’ home.

Justina’s return to Connecticut had major legal and financial implications. Since February 2013, Massachusetts had kept custody of — and paid for — a child from another state. The cost of Justina’s care had climbed to at least $400,000, based on Medicaid rates that apply to children in DCF care. Her case consumed vast amounts of energy within a state agency already plagued this year by child deaths under its watch, which led to the ousting of its commissioner.

Judge Johnston had hoped Connecticut’s child-protection agency would agree to accept oversight of the teen, engaging in a collegial baton pass often seen between states when children move. But that was not to be. Officials in Connecticut made clear they wanted nothing to do with the contentious case involving parental rights and the controversial new field of medical child abuse.
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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:42 am

"Possession is nine-tenths of the law."

If she is in Connecticut, she becomes "their problem."

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Re: Mito or Munchausen's

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:00 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Another case of Munchausen's by proxy?

Mommy Blogger Lacey Spears Arrested For Fatally Poisoning Son With Sodium: Cops

We first met Lacey Spears in May, when she was under investigation over the high levels of sodium found in her 5-year-old son's body when he died. She was writing about his "courageous" battle with sickness at the time, but investigators thought she might have been slowly killing him for attention.

Now police say it's true. Spears, 26, of upstate New York, was arrested and pleaded not guilty Tuesday to charges of second-degree murder and first-degree manslaughter in the death of her son, Garnett.

The boy was in and out of the hospital his entire life for various illnesses. He died in January, and hospital workers found toxic levels of sodium in his blood. The investigation revealed that Spears took him into a hospital bathroom on Jan. 17 and again on the 19th, and administered sodium directly into a tube in the boy's stomach, according to The Journal News.

Assistant District Attorney Doreen Lloyd said in court that Spears had also searched the Internet to study what effects large amounts of salt would have on the boy. She's suspected of poisoning him at least twice.

Garnett was alert and talking on Jan. 20. His condition worsened, and he died on Jan. 23. Spears' final social media post read, "Garnett the great journeyed onward today at 10:20 a.m.," according to The New York Post.

The murder charge doesn't accuse her of intentionally killing Garnett, but of acting out of indifference toward his life. Specifically, investigators believe she was poisoning him for more attention on her blog, called "Garnett's Journey." Earlier reports called it a case of Munchhausen syndrome by proxy, a psychiatric disorder in which a parent sickens a child for sympathy.

It's unclear whether Garnett ever needed the tube in the first place. Authorities suspect Spears subjected him to his previous illnesses so she could air her sob story on her blog, Twitter and Facebook. She wrote on Facebook in November 2009 that Garnett was admitted into a hospital 23 times.


Guilty

Now rot in hell.



As far as Justina's case goes, she had been rehospitalized last fall after returning home. Still not clear what exactly it is though.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/1 ... story.html

The most recent report I could find:

http://foxct.com/2015/02/15/justina-pel ... -problems/



Oh, and one other related story:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/1 ... ox_Article

Tufts Medical Center, whose chief of metabolism was involved in a highly contentious dispute with Boston Children’s Hospital staff over the diagnosis and treatment of a Connecticut teenager, Justina Pelletier, has shuttered its metabolism clinic, eliminating the position of its chief, Dr. Mark Korson, and sending more than 500 of his patients scrambling to find new care.

The hospital said that it had decided to reorganize its genetics and metabolism division in the pediatrics department to focus on genetics exclusively, and dropped Korson’s job as of Nov. 1. Many patients, who were given only about a month to find a new doctor in a field where providers are already in short supply, were sharply critical of the hospital’s surprise decision.

More than 150 of Korson’s patients, who saw him for treatment of assorted metabolic disorders, such as PKU and Gaucher disease, were given a list of eight facilities in New England, including Boston Children’s, where they might find new care. But the options are far more limited for the roughly 400 patients who saw Korson for mitochondrial disease, a group of genetic metabolic disorders that affect how cells produce energy. They were given the names of two advocacy groups that might provide help in finding physicians with expertise in the specialty who would accept new patients.

Korson’s mitochondrial patients were local and from distant states, and now some local patients are having to travel to Pennsylvania and Ohio for care.


Odd.
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