AA

Ever had it before? Well you got it again.
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DrMatt
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AA

Post by DrMatt » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:43 pm

I have no dog directly in this race, though it affects some loved ones.

AA works no better than no care at all, about 5%
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Re: AA

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:30 pm

Is it the same 5%

How is 'success' defined?

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Re: AA

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:46 pm

Rob Lister wrote:How is 'success' defined?
This is an important consideration.

Unlike almost every other recovery program (certainly unlike any paid recovery program), AA will always take you back after a relapse.

The success figures are also vitiated by the foul practice of (in effect) sentencing offenders to it.
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Re: AA

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:28 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote: This is an important consideration.
Exactly. Unless one measures success as a function of days not otherwise drinking, it is meaningless. Most everyone at least slips (which is euphemism for relapse). Many slip continuously. And that's okay.

The courts here will 'sentence' offenders (DUI and the like) not to AA, but to some program, of which AA is part of that some. And since AA is free, it is the one to which people without vast resources go, which is mostly everyone since if one has vast resources, one are not typically sentenced to anything. Rarely do those hang folk around past their obligation. Hell, rarely do they really have an addiction anyway.

Some come back on their own though. :) So the sentence is at least a worthy introduction to a future useful, if not provably needful, resource.

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Re: AA

Post by asthmatic camel » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:42 pm

Sounds about right. AA most certainly isn't for everyone. A lot of people are like me, they go to one meeting and flee in horror! I honestly thought "If this is sobriety, I'm staying fucking drunk!"
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: AA

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:37 am

asthmatic camel wrote:Sounds about right. AA most certainly isn't for everyone. A lot of people are like me, they go to one meeting and flee in horror! I honestly thought "If this is sobriety, I'm staying fucking drunk!"
I remember your story at the time. It almost certainly would have had the same effect on me.

I've also heard that there's a strong (though unofficial) fundy Christian vibe to it in some parts of the USA. But not in and around Chicago.

FWIW, Cook County (mainly Chicago) has the highest per capita AA of anywhere in the USA (and I'm guessing also the world).
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Re: AA

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:42 am

I think we have you beat in tidewater.

we could compare notes but suffice it to say, there is a meeting going on somewhere every minute of every day (not too many past midnight though) within 10 miles of me. Usually three or four.

So many sailors.

So many drunks.

Go figger.

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Re: AA

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:27 am

To be fair, I don't think any of the treatment regimes have a very high success rate, 12 step based or not.

Addiction is a bitch.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: AA

Post by HghrSymmetry » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:29 am

Indeed. I've never failed treatment...

...mainly because I've never had any.
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Re: AA

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:27 am

Not sure why this doctor and certain other writers seem to want so bad to make it possible for "problem" drinkers to be able to drink "socially."

Oh, well, WHATever...they talk about people learning to control their addictions and don't quite explain how that can be accomplished.

I remember this exchange at a certain venue.

AA member: "Yeah my name is Fritz and I'm dually addicted."

His sponsor: "What's this 'dually addicted' crap? You got more than two problems, asshole!"
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Re: AA

Post by Rob Lister » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:52 am

Pyrrho wrote:Not sure why this doctor and certain other writers seem to want so bad to make it possible for "problem" drinkers to be able to drink "socially."
I've seen it done. I have a Pal that did [does] just that. A multi-rehab addict that managed to get control. He drinks daily but not very much (a pint or so ... roughly a six-pack) He has a wife that helps him. Without her, he would last a year at best.

He is rare in my world. He is rare in the world, I think.

Whatever it takes to get you though your life.

Next time you see a drunk on the street, think twice before not flipping him a coin. There really is hope.

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Re: AA

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:05 am

Dad was what we might call a "problem drinker," meaning that if he had too much to drink, we had a problem. He didn't.

One time someone in the family accused him of being an alcoholic.

"I'm not an alcoholic. I don't have to have it. I can put it away."

He could choose whether or not he was going to drink himself under the table, whereas other people I've known had only one option.
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Re: AA

Post by asthmatic camel » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:33 pm

I allowed myself to drink over Christmas week with some very strict rules and conditions and under Mrs. Camel's supervision. It wasn't a big deal to stop again completely but I know for certain that had I not, I'd very quickly have ended up severely dependent again. I'm confident I'd be able to do the same maybe three or four times a year but a return to "social drinking" isn't an option, that would end in disaster.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.