Chiropractic

Ever had it before? Well you got it again.
tedly
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Post by tedly » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:03 am

viscousmemories wrote:

On the other hand I have occassional back problems that I'd rather not have, such as completely debilitating lower back pain for a few days every couple of years. Everything that might help looks appealing then.


Have you read anything by this guy http://www.bookloons.com/cgi-bin/Review.asp?bookid=2650 The Back Doctor Hamilton Hall.

I listened to an interview with him where he described surgery on a patient's back. The spine is covered by large muscles, and one of his co-workers was convinced that spinal manipulation could 'align' the spine. He hooked onto one of the processes with forceps and challenged the surgeon to move the bone at all.

He also suggest that since most back pain subsides in three days that there's good money to be made by treating backs with blue light and offering a double your money back guarantee if the pain isn't gone in three days. The math is very encouraging since blue lightbulbs should be real cheap.

His major point is that you can strengthen the muscles and correct your posture, building a bank account of support. Then if you want to play basketball you can draw it down a bit. You can have a bad back rather than being a bad back.

As far as spinal manipulation goes, many physiotherapists can do that, too. You get the treatment without the mumbo-jumbo, and they may just find, as they did with me that what I thought was a muscle pain in my leg was cartilage in my knee. She fixed it.

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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:51 am

Thanks for all the comments, folks. I think I'll be staying away from the chiros for the time being. :)

Thanks Chani for post and new word, physiatrist. I had to look that one up 'cause I've never heard a physical therapist referred to thusly.

And thanks for that book link, tedly. I'll check it out. It is very true that every time I've had this lower back pain it has gone away within three days.

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Post by Loon » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:04 am

viscousmemories wrote:Thanks Chani for post and new word, physiatrist. I had to look that one up 'cause I've never heard a physical therapist referred to thusly.


This means you haven't been reading Doonesbury lo these past two weeks.

/utterly irrelevant
I guess there he chose to err on the side of more votes. -[size=75]Grammatron[/size]

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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:56 pm

Loon wrote:
viscousmemories wrote:Thanks Chani for post and new word, physiatrist. I had to look that one up 'cause I've never heard a physical therapist referred to thusly.


This means you haven't been reading Doonesbury lo these past two weeks.

/utterly irrelevant

Ah, tis true. I don't read newspapers at all, actually. And though I like Doonesbury it's usually over my head because I haven't until recently made much of an effort to keep up with politics.

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Cloverlief
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Post by Cloverlief » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:57 am

viscousmemories wrote:Thanks for all the comments, folks. I think I'll be staying away from the chiros for the time being. :)

Thanks Chani for post and new word, physiatrist. I had to look that one up 'cause I've never heard a physical therapist referred to thusly.

...snip...


Actually, a physiatrist is not a physical therapist. A physiatrist is an MD who specializes in rehabilative medicine that is non-surgical. Of course a lot of people think I said psychiatrist and boy has that brought on some nasty phone calls usually starting with, "I am not INSANE!!" Hheheehe
Chani

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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:01 am

Chanileslie wrote:
viscousmemories wrote:Thanks for all the comments, folks. I think I'll be staying away from the chiros for the time being. :)

Thanks Chani for post and new word, physiatrist. I had to look that one up 'cause I've never heard a physical therapist referred to thusly.

...snip...


Actually, a physiatrist is not a physical therapist. A physiatrist is an MD who specializes in rehabilative medicine that is non-surgical. Of course a lot of people think I said psychiatrist and boy has that brought on some nasty phone calls usually starting with, "I am not INSANE!!" Hheheehe

Oh, weird. Dictionary.com says both:

1. A physician who specializes in physical medicine.
2. A health care professional who administers physical therapy; a physical therapist.

And I thought you said psychiatrist at first, too. :)

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Cloverlief
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Post by Cloverlief » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:27 am

viscousmemories wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:
viscousmemories wrote:Thanks for all the comments, folks. I think I'll be staying away from the chiros for the time being. :)

Thanks Chani for post and new word, physiatrist. I had to look that one up 'cause I've never heard a physical therapist referred to thusly.

...snip...


Actually, a physiatrist is not a physical therapist. A physiatrist is an MD who specializes in rehabilative medicine that is non-surgical. Of course a lot of people think I said psychiatrist and boy has that brought on some nasty phone calls usually starting with, "I am not INSANE!!" Hheheehe

Oh, weird. Dictionary.com says both:

1. A physician who specializes in physical medicine.
2. A health care professional who administers physical therapy; a physical therapist.

And I thought you said psychiatrist at first, too. :)


Dictionary.com is just plain wrong on the second definition! :D
Chani

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Cloverlief
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Post by Cloverlief » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:41 am

As noted by tedly, it is important if you experience back problems to build up those muscles through excercise.

Also, it is true most back pain does disapear within 3 days and most 'slipped disks' which are really a bulging of the disk will correct themselves with in 90 days without treatment.

If you do have back pain longer than 30 days, I highly recommend that you seek the care of a physician who can at least prescribe meds that will lessen your discomfort and permit your back to heal. Also, a physician can prescribe physical therapy visits which is where one can learn excercises to strengthen ones muscles. Please note though, if you have no improvement over 12 physical therapy sessions, PT probably won't help you all that much.

If you have a bulging disk, you can also have what are called epidurals or selective nerve root blocks wherein a anesthesiologist trained in pain medicine will inject into the spinal fluid at the level of the disk bulge a neurolitic substance along with some pain killers. It allows for the cessation of pain and also permits the disk bulge to heal. Epidural injections should always be followed up with physical therapy for them to be truely effective in the long run.

Also note: Most disk bulges will be at the cervical levels or the lumbar levels, usually L4-S1. It is unusual to have a disc bulge in the thoracic region.

To identify between a disc bulge and a sore muscle, disc bulges are often accompanied by numbness in your extremities which will vary with which level the disc bulge is at. For example a disc bulge at L1-L2 levels will cause numbness to run down the outside of you thigh and then twist in to your inner thigh.

I know more information than you really wanted to know about the back, eh? :-)

Note: L = lumbar, C = cervical, and T = thoracic.
Chani

tedly
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Post by tedly » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:00 am

My daughter is gathering stuff for a garage sale, and there, in the box, is my wife's copy of "The Back Doctor" by Hamilton Hall, M.D. Coincidence.... I think not.

Some quotes.
"And manipulatioon can shorten the duration of an acute attack. In other words, chiropractic has its uses for people who need what the chiropractor has to offer: the relief of some forms of acute paraspinal muscle spasm through manipulation of the neck or low back.
Certainly chiropractors go too far when they suggest that manipulation will prevent muscle spasms as well as cure them. ... no amount of manipulation at a given moment can prevent a spasm from occurring later."

"I never hesitate to recommend manipulative therapy for my patients if I believe it will be safe and useful. But I usually refer such cases to physiotherapists. A good physiotherapist can manipulate a patient's body just as ably and effectively as any chiropractor - and will do so I might add, without the doubletalk[....] I know I can count on the physiotherapist to keep in touch with me .. in the interest of the patient who becomes our common concern. [...] My patient would become the chiropractor's patient, and I would be expected to have nothing further to say about the treatment. That's not my idea of the best way to help people get well."

"Harsher critics than I have suggested that in the art of manipulation some chiropractors are even more adept with people than they are with spines."

"The treatment Charlie got - the pills, the hot packs, the massage, the ultrasound - were not necessarily useless, but they provided short-term relief at best. As for the long-term measures - the new surgical technique, the spa, the chiropractic, the acupuncture, even the wonder drug - any or all of them might have proved helpful, but Charlie could have done without them if he'd been told, back on day 3, what he really needed.
He needed a few days of bed rest - probably a week at the most.
He needed to learn a few simple, painless excercises that can be completed in a few minutes each day.
He needed a new set of daily habits - ways of sitting, standing, lifting, sleeping - to minimize the strain on his back.
He neeeded to realize that you never cure a bad back - you control it."

"... you probably have one of the three most common types of back problems: a worn facet joint, which I call Type 1 backache; a protruding disc, Type 2; or a pinched nerve, Type 3. And since Type 3 accounts for only about one case of common backache out of every ten, there is a 90% chance that you have Type 1 or Type 2."

".. anyone who lives an average lifespan without suffering from backache belongs to a privileged minority."

The guy is a spinal surgeon who doesn't think that his profession is the best way to deal with back pain, but that it does have application.

Any hoo the book is going to sell for a quarter, or not. Send me a PM and we can figure out how to give it to you if you want it.

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viscousmemories
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Post by viscousmemories » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:16 am

tedly wrote:Any hoo the book is going to sell for a quarter, or not. Send me a PM and we can figure out how to give it to you if you want it.

But you just transcribed the whole thing! :)

Seriously, though. It'd probably be easier on both of us if I just find it locally. I'm moving in a couple weeks so it wouldn't be very prudent to try to arrange anything to be delivered via mail just now.

Thanks for the heads up though.

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Lisa Simpson
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Post by Lisa Simpson » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:36 am

I've had been to two chiropractors in my life; one was from the "spinal manipulation can cure any disease under the sun" school of chiropractic. The other was the first doctor to diagnose the incredibly painful headaches I get as migraines and told me that chiropractic cannot treat them. He also refused to treat my husband after he found out my hubby has a genetic disorder that causes hypermobile joints. He was a real honest doc. He quit being a chiropractor; I never knew if it was an ethical decision, or not. Overall, I'd say exercise and the occasional massage has done more for my back than chiro ever did.

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Post by Eos of the Eons » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:15 am

We just did up a bunch of flyers for a chiro at my work. It is geared towards parents to bring in their kids for regular treatment to prevent back strain from carrying backpacks for school, and sitting all hunched over in desks. You know, prevention. Get your kids in before school starts, and keep them coming all during the school year!

Sheesh!
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tedly
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Post by tedly » Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:19 pm

viscousmemories wrote:
But you just transcribed the whole thing! :)

Seriously, though. It'd probably be easier on both of us if I just find it locally.
Thanks for the heads up though.



Nah, I'm under .5% of the book. And you are right about local sources. Ed bless public libraries.