Civilization V (and now IV)

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RCC
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Civilization V (and now IV)

Post by RCC » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:31 pm

I like it so far, even though it is clearly a rushed and unfinished release. There seems to be a few imbalances like the maritime city states becoming some sort of food superfactory when allied with you, and the nationality traits are far more unique and pronounced making some seem wildly overpowered and others seem silly.

Having the Songhai on a roomy map can allow you to fuel expansion just by killing barbarians (3X gold for a barb encampment). On a land based map the Ottomans (chance of turning naval barb units to your side) are mostly useless. Or just useless anyway unless one has use for a ton of outdated naval units.

The interface and basic play are simpler than Civ4. The AI is a bit daft. Combat is completely reworked as stacking units is no longer allowed, which contributes to the AI issues. It is pretty obvious the game has areas that will be filled in with expansions and DLCs, which I don't mind. Given how much I play it I'd happily chuck down $250 or so for a near perfect product seeing I'll get a ton more hours of play from civ than anything else I could get for $50. Paying as it develops seems a good state of affairs to me, doubly so in that given the infinite nature of the game no beta test can match up to release....
Last edited by RCC on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by En folkefiende » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:54 pm

My observations so far:

You can't beat England in an ocean world.

You can't beat Catherine of Russia in a land world.

I've done OK with Washington. I can't make Asoka work at all. I have, however, developed a principle, if Asoka (Songhai) is involved, squash that bug ASAP. They are profoundly annoying and bossy. The Aztec's aren't much better, squash them.

I have over and over won the "cultural" victory, bulding the "Utopia Project".

A few times, rather, I've gotten to fusion and conquered the world with "Giant Death Robots".
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:22 pm

jj wrote:I have, however, developed a principle, if Asoka (Songhai) is involved, squash that bug ASAP.
Okay, I'll help a guy out. What your attitude should be is:
I have, however, developed a principle, if I see another civilization, squash that bug ASAP.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:34 pm

Been playing myself. Haven't had much variety in leaders since (as usual) I started the longest, largest possible game on a fractal map at the level formerly and now again known as Prince.

I happened to get Asoka. I led the world comfortably into the Renaissance era, farming barbarian camps, conquering Egypt and France along the way. Somehow I got the idea you weren't supposed to spam so many cities, and I didn't have a lot of happiness anyway so I kept my size moderate and mostly puppeted my conquests.

So now that bald warmongering asshole Gandhi (aka my best friend on the map) suddenly surges ahead, slapping cities on every unclaimed hex, kill-stealing Versailles, and entering Industrial before I do. And Modern a few turns (it seemed) after I entered Industrial myself. He uses riflemen.

I'm beelining to Infantry. Researching replaceable parts even now. This will not stand!
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:51 pm

gnome wrote:Been playing myself. Haven't had much variety in leaders since (as usual) I started the longest, largest possible game on a fractal map at the level formerly and now again known as Prince.

I happened to get Asoka. I led the world comfortably into the Renaissance era, farming barbarian camps, conquering Egypt and France along the way. Somehow I got the idea you weren't supposed to spam so many cities, and I didn't have a lot of happiness anyway so I kept my size moderate and mostly puppeted my conquests.

So now that bald warmongering asshole Gandhi (aka my best friend on the map) suddenly surges ahead, slapping cities on every unclaimed hex, kill-stealing Versailles, and entering Industrial before I do. And Modern a few turns (it seemed) after I entered Industrial myself. He uses riflemen.

I'm beelining to Infantry. Researching replaceable parts even now. This will not stand!
So why didn't you declare war on him when you saw him getting ahead?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:42 am

His rise to be more powerful was very rapid--I didn't realize it until I didn't dare start anything. Yet.

I've spent some time in a military-technological buildup that may do the trick.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:52 am

gnome wrote:His rise to be more powerful was very rapid--I didn't realize it until I didn't dare start anything. Yet.

I've spent some time in a military-technological buildup that may do the trick.
Have you ever lost a war you started in civ?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:54 am

Not in Civ 5... but this is my first serious session. It wasn't good at the time. It would have been musketmen vs. riflemen, I didn't like the idea of that.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:00 am

gnome wrote:Not in Civ 5... but this is my first serious session. It wasn't good at the time. It would have been musketmen vs. riflemen, I didn't like the idea of that.
What's your best defensive unit?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:16 am

I had xbows, pikemen, and a couple of Asoka's special knights
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:49 am

gnome wrote:I had xbows, pikemen, and a couple of Asoka's special knights
I assume pikemen are relatively cheaper than musketmen, right? Who's to say you can't wage economic warfare by pillaging everything in sight with spammed defense units?

Big monies and Big armies are supported/produced when you have Big power house cities, and they need Big resources. And if they can't get Big resources, they become little cities. With little monies and little armies and little technologies. But the real idear is that you destroy other Civs before they get too many Big cities. Hell, you should at least be at war so you can steal their resources and land, so you get bigger.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:06 pm

Ahhh but even puppeting that puts my happiness at like -14.

I declared war on India last night. My happiness is in the toilet but I've taken three cities anyway and it's brought me back into the running. I think.

I may have to adopt more of a scorched-earth approach in future games.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:19 pm

And what are you going to do from now on?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:20 pm

Try to get my happiness up, take more cities?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:24 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of drinking the blood of your fallen enemies' skulls. But taking more cities will do, so long as you take all of them.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:04 pm

I think I'll have to build giant feast/orgy emporiums to keep my people from getting all grumpy under that approach though.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Civilization V

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:09 pm

gnome wrote:I think I'll have to build giant feast/orgy emporiums to keep my people from getting all grumpy under that approach though.
Think about all the new luxury resources you could acquire to keep happiness up.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Civilization V

Post by RCC » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:34 pm

This game, at least in the present build, seems to favor warmongering and city spamming. The AI is tactically stupid, big cities are harder to keep happy, and the city square itself is superior to almost all improved tiles.

A ton of smallish cities + maritime ally giving food to each city + per city bonuses from policy tree = ye gads. Especially when you get Forbidden Palace and the policy that each eliminate 50% of happiness from the number of cities.

The scoring is a bit weird. The bonus you get for ending the game early doesn't seem to outweigh spending the rest of the game running up the score via population, cities, and future tech. My friend thinks the score is somehow relevant, scored 3900, and wouldn't shut up about it... so I took it seriously once and rolled up about 13500. I had something like 250 future techs...

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Re: Civilization V

Post by RCC » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:36 pm

By the way, Mentat, it is your move....

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Re: Civilization V

Post by gnome » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:43 pm

RCC wrote:This game, at least in the present build, seems to favor warmongering and city spamming. The AI is tactically stupid, big cities are harder to keep happy, and the city square itself is superior to almost all improved tiles.

A ton of smallish cities + maritime ally giving food to each city + per city bonuses from policy tree = ye gads. Especially when you get Forbidden Palace and the policy that each eliminate 50% of happiness from the number of cities.

The scoring is a bit weird. The bonus you get for ending the game early doesn't seem to outweigh spending the rest of the game running up the score via population, cities, and future tech. My friend thinks the score is somehow relevant, scored 3900, and wouldn't shut up about it... so I took it seriously once and rolled up about 13500. I had something like 250 future techs...
A good way to keep the score in proper perspective is to simply turn off time victory, which means the game plays until someone scores a REAL victory.

That way I think of the score as the computer's estimate of how well you're doing. Which may or may not tell the whole story.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2