The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

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Brother Edward
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Brother Edward » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:26 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Brother Edward:
When I ask about your day job, I'm not asking for personal identifiable information, just a general idea.

For example my day job is software engineer (at least that's my title), and I work for a non-military non-law-enforcement federal agency.

The only person here who figured out my secret identity (rather than just being told), didn't do it from my job description. That would be DrMatt, a classical composer whose day job is systems analyst (or something like that) for a large public hospital.

Unlike you and DrMatt, I have no highfalutin avocation after earning a living. :BigGrin3:

How about it? And no nonsense about not having a day job if you happen to earn your living at night. :)


I'm a psychiatric registered nurse (before that I was an ICU nurse for a number of years). It's right there in my profile; it always has been from the day I joined this forum. As for personally identifiable information, my website has all of that, about the only thing you don't get is my street address and phone number.

Edward's Bio

When I'm not doing that, I work this ministry. One day, I'll work this ministry full time.

So, is your avatar out of a Jack Chick tact? It looks like the New Age healer in the tract about the tribulation.

As for who you really are: Honeslty, it doesn't really matter to me. It would be nice to know what part of the country you live in (I'm assuming Chicago), and how old you are, and what your gender is, because that info just makes it easier to communicate. But that's up to you.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Doctor X » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:41 pm

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--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby ed » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:51 pm

+1
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Cloverlief » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:05 pm

Brother Edward wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How exactly is that inconsistent with being an atheist?

Also please answer some of my other questions.

Thank you.


Because atheism is not the end of this.

And I think you know by now that if you ask a serious question in a respectful way, I'm going to answer it. I have so far.


Sadly not true. I asked a serious question. I was not rude to you or unpleasant, but just asked for evidence to support your claim, and you responded with insults.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Cloverlief » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:06 pm

Brother Edward wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How exactly is that inconsistent with being an atheist?

Also please answer some of my other questions.

Thank you.


Because atheism is not the end of this.

And I think you know by now that if you ask a serious question in a respectful way, I'm going to answer it. I have so far.


Sadly not true. I asked a serious question. I was not rude to you or unpleasant, but just asked for evidence to support your claim, and you responded with insults.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby DrMatt » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:09 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Brother Edward wrote:Because atheism is not the end of this.


Evidences?


Covered in a previous movie.

Woody Allen wrote:Not only is there no god, but just try to get a plumber on Sunday!
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby asthmatic camel » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:23 pm

Brother Edward wrote:I'm a psychiatric registered nurse...


Sheep become like shepherds, shepherds like sheep.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby ed » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:10 pm

Brother Edward wrote:I'm a psychiatric registered nurse



How would you distingush between a patient who averred to the same unsupported belief system as yours and one who, say, believed he was guided by My Little Pony?

How would you distingush? If you say that you have "truth" there must be a way. Your "thought experiments" fail, there is no evidence, there is no internal support in your books for a grand being. How then do you prove anything?

If you say "proof is not necessary, in fact proof gets in the way of belief" then we have the answer.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:19 pm

Brother Edward wrote:I'm a psychiatric registered nurse ...


Oh gee, who reads profiles?

A psychiatric nurse?

How exactly does one get such a job?

Is there a psychiatric nurse equivalent to a jailhouse lawyer? 8)
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:30 pm

Brother Edward wrote: {stuff}


[1] A re-drawn version of Jack Chick's New Age Gestapo character. I encourage you to click the link in my sig for further information.

[2] Cook County IL

[3] :oldman: :BigGrin3:

[4] Male.

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No that's not me. :lmao:


OK. No how about explaining how being a "seeker" is inconsistent with being an atheist.
That is to say, inconsistent with a sincerely held idea that no god exists, especially yours?
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby asthmatic camel » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:34 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Brother Edward wrote:I'm a psychiatric registered nurse ...


Oh gee, who reads profiles?

A psychiatric nurse?

How exactly does one get such a job?

Is there a psychiatric nurse equivalent to a jailhouse lawyer? 8)


One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest springs to mind.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:30 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest springs to mind.


I thought of this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058585/ :coolspecs:
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby DrMatt » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:08 am

I just read the history of nursing. Apparently it grew out of a Roman Catholic custom.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Brother Edward » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:29 am

ed wrote:How would you distingush between a patient who averred to the same unsupported belief system as yours and one who, say, believed he was guided by My Little Pony?

How would you distingush? If you say that you have "truth" there must be a way. Your "thought experiments" fail, there is no evidence, there is no internal support in your books for a grand being. How then do you prove anything?

If you say "proof is not necessary, in fact proof gets in the way of belief" then we have the answer.


One thing's for sure when it comes to atheism: It's not about proof. You guys aren't looking for proof. You already have all the proof you need. What you won't accept is being told what to think. That's not a bad thing.

Unfortunately, your anti-authoritarianism also leads to skepticism, and with skepticism you throw out the baby with the bathwater. You reject Christ when you reject Christianity.

And that's a poor choice (But then you would never consider that you could make a poor choice, now would you?).

The only way you're ever going to believe in God is if you come to the conclusion yourself that God exists. The only way you're going to accept Jesus Christ as a teacher is if you read the Gospels and you suddenly have an insight into them.

I can't give you proof that will work. I can't show you anything that will change your mind. If you don't find it; you will not accept it.

My current work in this ministry is not so much to convert you, but rather to study you. To find a way of evangelizing that works. I haven't found it yet, but I will.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Doctor X » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:32 am

First.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Doctor X » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:43 am

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:08 am

Brother Edward wrote: ... your anti-authoritarianism also leads to skepticism ...


It's the other way round.

And why should anybody accept your authority? You can't even appeal to the crowd, because no one does.

And you still haven't answered my earlier question.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Nyarlathotep » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:10 pm

Brother Edward wrote:
My current work in this ministry is not so much to convert you, but rather to study you. To find a way of evangelizing that works. I haven't found it yet, but I will.


So at some point you figured alternating between lying about us, insulting us and running away from hard questions was a plan that might possibly have worked?

Heckuva plan, you go there Eddie-boy.
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:38 pm

My current work in this ministry is not so much to convert you, but rather to study you. To find a way of evangelizing that works.


Sorta the way I feel about you, though it would be nice if you came over. :)
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Re: The Two Tenets of Veridicanism

Postby ed » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:31 pm

Brother Edward wrote:
ed wrote:How would you distingush between a patient who averred to the same unsupported belief system as yours and one who, say, believed he was guided by My Little Pony?

How would you distingush? If you say that you have "truth" there must be a way. Your "thought experiments" fail, there is no evidence, there is no internal support in your books for a grand being. How then do you prove anything?

If you say "proof is not necessary, in fact proof gets in the way of belief" then we have the answer.


One thing's for sure when it comes to atheism: It's not about proof. You guys aren't looking for proof. You already have all the proof you need. What you won't accept is being told what to think. That's not a bad thing.


Proof? What sort of proof and for what? There is no proof of the existence of a supernatural alien godlike critter. If there were, we would not be having this discussion. If it exists and you are being coy about presenting it then you are being dishonest. If you are referring to some argument fraught with illogic that is a basic appeal to ignorance then you have nothing. I assume that you are not being ironic and suggesting that we have all the evidence we need for our beliefs. Maybe you are.

Unfortunately, your anti-authoritarianism also leads to skepticism, and with skepticism you throw out the baby with the bathwater. You reject Christ when you reject Christianity.


As Abdul said, skepticism leads to anti-authoritarianism. Sceptics, actually, are far more likely to hold onto the baby and ditch the bathwater than the religious. Interesting, the role of the churches during the Holocaust. Babies, bathwater, jews, all aus. All for the good of the church. All for god.

And that's a poor choice (But then you would never consider that you could make a poor choice, now would you?).
I suspect I am far more likely to introspect than you are. You "know" the truth already, nu?

The only way you're ever going to believe in God is if you come to the conclusion yourself that God exists.

A tautology. I have been asking for any proof that you can muster. I pointed out that the books that you refer to as the source of your beliefs provide no authority for those beliefs. None. Zero.

The only way you're going to accept Jesus Christ as a teacher is if you read the Gospels and you suddenly have an insight into them.

I have read them. They are inconsistant and of questionable authority. I would defer to Dr. X on that score, you should ask him why he thinks the way he does. You may learn something. When is Jesus returning? During the lives of those that hear him or something?

Frankly, I picture the Gospels as being mirrored by Manzarek Densmore and Krieger after Jim snuffed it.

Ray: Fuck. Drunken bastard finally did it.
Robbie: I told him, I ...
Ray: Jesus Christ Robbie, shut the fuck up.
John: Question is, my friends, do we give up the sex and drugs and rock and roll and go back to the Taco Bell gig or can we, miraculusly, conjure up the semblence of old drunken Jim ...
Ray: Hmm ... you mean like JC maybe?
John: Just like that.
Robbie: But noone will believe that he rose again, will they?
Ray: they don't have to. Say, think you would get sick of playing Light My Fire?
Robbie: Do we get S&D&R&R?
Ray: More than ever because ...
John and Robbie: Yes?
Ray: We KNOW the way Jim would have wanted it.

Same damn thing. Hell of a lot better inventing miricles and defining what JC meant than going back to fishing. Can you imagine how pissed those disciples were when the gravy train ended? Makes a pretty strong prima facie case for fraud.

I can't give you proof that will work. I can't show you anything that will change your mind. If you don't find it; you will not accept it.


Finally. Why didn't you say that there was no proof weeks ago?

My current work in this ministry is not so much to convert you, but rather to study you. To find a way of evangelizing that works. I haven't found it yet, but I will.


Well, you seem to be at a loss to both define a clear consistent purpose and to be honest about it.

Study away.
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