Why I think religion is the bunk

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Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby ed » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:33 pm

I have been trying to get my thoughts in order on this topic for some time. It's easy to dismiss religion when one sees the silliness of the Pope all dressed up and going thru some ritual that if a hottentot were doing it would evoke twitters of laughter from the christian elite. Or when I see the difference between the profession and practice.

What I mean is "why?". I am going to use this thread to sorta work thru it all and you are welcome to add or comment or be disruptive.

To begin with, the judeo-christian belief system is based on the two books of the bible. If they are bunk, then the religious edifice is bunk since it would not have come into being (in it's current form) without them. If they are made up by humans then they are the bunk. They must needs be divine for there to be any relevance to them. Right? So, are they divine in any way shape or form?

I have read the bible, both books. I am no scholar nor am reasonably familiar with the texts, except for snippits. But this is my take away:

I. There is nothing there that even vaguely suggests the hand of an advanced power/intellect. Nothing, not one thing. It is something that human beings of the time would have no problem cobbling together.

As Ingersoll said (I was floored when I cam across this, he wrote my thoughts exactly. Again, thanks to Nyasrl for directing me to him. Didn't know he existed.)

Every religion in this world is the work of man. Every book has been written by man. Men existed before the books. If books had existed before man, I might admit there was such a thing as a sacred volume. Man never had an idea—man will never have an idea, except those supplied to him by his surroundings. Every idea in the world that man has came to him by nature. You can imagine an animal with the hoof of a bison, with the pouch of the kangaroo, with the wings of an eagle, with the beak of a bird, and with the tail of the lion; and yet every point of this monster you borrowed from nature. Every thing you can think of, every thing you can dream of, is borrowed from your surroundings. And there is nothing on this earth coming from any other sphere whatever. Man has produced every religion in the world. And why? Because each religion bodes forth the knowledge and the belief of the people at the time it was made, and in no book is there any knowledge found, except that of the people who wrote it. In no book is there found any knowledge, except that of the time in which it was written. Barbarians have produced, and always will produce barbarian religions; barbarians have produced and always will produce ideas in harmony with their surroundings, and all the religions of the past were produced by barbarians. We are making religions to-day. That is to-say, we are changing them, and the religion of to-day is not the religion of one year ago. What changed it? Science has done it; education and the growing heart of man has done it. And just to the extent that we become civilized ourselves, will we improve the religion of our fathers. If the religion of one hundred years ago, compared with the religion of to-day is so low, what will it be in one thousand years?


II. The bible if fraught with inconsistencies. The Goliath thing is one, the question of the timing of the second coming is a biggie in my view since it is pretty unequivocally stated. It is not the inconsistencies that bother me as much as the apologetics that go around them. To believe you must accept that God wrote his holy word in such a way that a lawyer is required for understanding. That, my friends, is noinsence. It suggests that God is incapable of making a clear case.

III. placeholder ... the difference between a reality defined by gods existence and that that would have occurred if there were no god. Is there a difference?

IV. place holder "You cannot know gods plan/will/intentions/purpose" the ultimate get out of jail free card. It seems that if this is so then God is a kidder and you can not, by definition, have any idea of what he wants so you might as well live your life and hope for the best. If he is a kidder, you have no idea what is true and what is not so you might as well simply live your life according to your god given judgement. Right?
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Doctor X » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:25 am

"Judeo-Christian" is a completely made up term used now by Christians as a "pat-on-the-head" to Jews: "we stole your books and, like, you will not be the first to be damned into a lake of fire."

The Japanese Original use of it was political according to a mentor who researched it: Jewish lobbyists during the run-up to WWII in 'merica trying to create a common ground for the completely Christian government to oppose what the Nazis were doing.

Which sort of explains the issue with religion: we seek validation for what we want to be true. To diffuse major religious warfare in discussions I use Sports Analogies. The Red Sox have won EVERY World Series . . . I believe it! The "Doctor X--Humble Yet MagNIfIcent--Bible" says it! End of discussion!

Reality indicates otherwise.

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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby ed » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:34 pm

ScreenShot032.jpg


Right you are. Interesting.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby whitefork » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:32 pm

if you don't patronize the brothels why do you care what language the girls speak?
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby DrMatt » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:10 pm

whitefork wrote:if you don't patronize the brothels why do you care what language the girls speak?

Wait, does one go to a brothel to sit around and talk? Enlighten me...
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:19 pm

I think most of us here agree that it is bunk. I could cite dozens of reasons. The ones mentioned by Ed are certainly big ones.

The one I would give is that ultimately it's just another way to get the money out of your pocket and into theirs. If it works well, the victim will do it voluntarily and even enthusiastically. Look at how much the pastors at big mega churches make. It can get into the millions. Look at all the fancy stuff at the Vatican and all the real-world power they used to wield. It's a way to control people and make them do your will.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:30 pm

Ed's first reason is the big one for me. The universe looks exactly like one would expect it to with no guiding hand as such behind it.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby ed » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:07 pm

I read somewhere e that religion was invented to console frightened children.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:30 pm

Or to frighten consoled children. Both work.

Also, it seems to have served a purpose of explaining what seemed unexplainable to our ancestors.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:46 pm

It starts with fear of ghosts.

Daddy in the sky is actually a fairly sophisticated concept.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:51 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:It starts with fear of ghosts.

Daddy in the sky is actually a fairly sophisticated concept.


That's true. The oldest religions are basically ancestor worship and/or animism
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Doctor X » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:52 pm

Things have many purposes and they acquire them as a shark acquires remora fish things.

What I find fascinating is the need to believe a belief is "old" and, therefore, "original and correct." This is retrojection of current beliefs back upon the ancients of course.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel

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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby ed » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:53 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Also, it seems to have served a purpose of explaining what seemed unexplainable to our ancestors.


Yeah. As Wilde said "Science is the record of dead religions".
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby whitefork » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:31 pm

they just won't stay dead though.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby sparks » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:23 pm

Religion, it has been said, was our first attempt to esplainify the natural world and as such, it sucks. That's one of many reasons why we need to throw it down the shitter. Science, on the other hand, is doing a lovely job revealing the natural world.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Doctor X » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:24 pm

As humans we look for meaning, we look for comfort, we look for control over things we cannot control.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel

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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby ed » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:52 pm

Humans don't like ambiguity... they tend to "close" open figures, they find patterns in randomness. Religion is structure.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:06 pm

It's really the same logic that drives the popularity of conspiracy theories, really. A universe where bad things happen by design (whether that design be that of The Illuminati or The Great and Hairy Thunderer In The Sky) is a lot less scary to some people than one where those same things happen for no reason at all. It's a lot more comforting to think that that tidal wave wiped out that village because it was part of the Divine Plan than because it was the unfortunate victim of a confluence of impersonal events.
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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Witness » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:32 am

sparks wrote:Religion, it has been said, was our first attempt to esplainify the natural world and as such, it sucks. That's one of many reasons why we need to throw it down the shitter. Science, on the other hand, is doing a lovely job revealing the natural world.

That, exactly.

What irks me strongly is that the cockroaches always want to impose their crazy Weltanschaung on others.

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Re: Why I think religion is the bunk

Postby Doctor X » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:39 am

If you doubt their Weltanschaung than that implies there is a reason to doubt it.

Clearly the best thing to do in their mind is to kill you and everyone who raises this doubt.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!


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