Is the Bible really the Word of God?

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Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby ed » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:48 pm

From the site that gave us the crap about losing a loved one who is a non believer.


Is the Bible really the Word of God?

There's no doubt that this is an important question. If the Bible is the Word of God, it changes everything – the way we view life, the way we live life, and the choices we make. If the Bible is the Word of God, then the Bible is true, and failure to follow, obey and trust it will have eternal consequences. To ignore God's Word is to ignore God Himself.


There is a bigger issue: if the Bible is the word of God, then God would have to exist.

God's love is proved by the existence of the Bible.
Non-sequitor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Completely unsupported contention.
God did not have to communicate to mankind, but He chose to so that we could know Him, enjoy fellowship with Him, and understand ourselves and the world.
See note above. Further, assuming typical characterizations of God, any use of the words "have to" or assumptions of motivations are unsupported and absurd.
If He had not taken the first step to reveal Himself to us through His Word, we simply would not know Him, and we would be left to deduce what we could about the world from what we could sense. But God has graciously shown us the Truth, and it is contained in the Bible. Since God is our Creator (Isaiah 40:28), He is our authority (Isaiah 43:15), and His Word is the final authority for humankind, and the only entirely trustworthy moral litmus test (1 John 2:5). It explains life and death and gives us a clear understanding of right and wrong.


This simply begs the question.

So, how do we know for sure that the Bible we have is the actual Word of God? Could the Bible be just another holy book? What is the evidence that the Bible we buy in the bookstore today is truly the Word of God?


I would add "And thus prove the existence of God"

First, the Bible itself claims to be the Word of God, in 2 Timothy 3:15-17, which says "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.


So the bible is the word of god because it says so? Circular and insulting.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

This is an example of an "internal" evidence that the Bible is the Word of God. Internal evidences are those things stated within the Bible that claim its divine origin.


It is an assertion, not evidence.

A few other internal evidences are the unity of the Bible,


I would let Doc comment on this but at a minimum it assumes facts not in evidence.

the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible,


Verified predictions would win Randi's million, not sure what it proves beyond that. Of course, verification would have to be external.

and the unique, powerful authority of the Bible.


Bullshit.

The unity of the Bible means that, even though it was written by more than 40 different authors over three continents, in three different languages, and is comprised of 66 individual documents, it is cohesive down to the last detail. Every supposed contradiction in the Bible can be answered in a satisfactory way. There are no mistakes, and it all works together perfectly. That's a miracle!


If this were true, it proves that it is cohesive, nothing more. A more powerful argument would be if there were no contradictions in the first place.

The fulfilled prophecies in the Bible also indicate that it is God's Word. Hundreds of prophecies about future kingdoms and nations, and most importantly, the Messiah, were spoken forth and then fulfilled, sometimes hundreds of years later. This is all recorded within the Bible itself.


Ummm. What was that again?

This is all recorded within the Bible itself.


WTF did I just say aout outside verification? WHAT DID I SAY??? Get over here...

:De_Bunk:

Unlike many modern prophecies, the prophecies in Scripture are very detailed and are fulfilled exactly.


If the proof only is internal, this is trivial and stupid.

There is no way this happened by chance. The only answer is that the Bible is of divine origin.


The author has not yet learned the conditional.

The Bible's unique authority and power is another internal evidence for its divine origin. This power is revealed by the millions of lives that have been changed by it over the course of human history. Martyrs have given their lives up to preserve its truth. Sinners throughout the ages have been convicted and changed by it, broken hearts have been healed by God's comforting voice coming through its pages, and salvation has been graciously made available through its record of the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. No other book in human history has the power to change lives like the Bible, the Word of the God who created life.


Same can be said for Love Story. Pious bullshit.

In addition to the internal evidences, there are also external evidences that the Bible is God's Word. The Bible's historicity, the integrity of its human authors, and its indestructibility.

The "historicity of the Bible" means it is true and accurate to the historical events recorded by non-religious sources. Archaeological events and historical writings prove the Bible to be true. It is the best-documented book from the ancient world. The accurate historical records found in the Bible give us proof of its truthfulness about spiritual subjects.


Every historical novel shares these characteristics, some far better than the bible. The issue is not whether this is even true, it is cynical misdirection.

The integrity of its human authors is another external evidence of its truthfulness. When the lives of the authors of Scripture are studied, they are found to be honest men.


I fear I wrong the honourable men
Whose daggers have stabb'd Caesar


Fuck you, honest. Come here again .... closer, I need better trajectory ....
:De_Bunk:

Idiot. Seriously, how can you argue with this level of stupid? :x



Their willingness to die for what they believed shows that they were sure of their testimonies.


So? And this proves what exactly?

Those who wrote the New Testament (and hundreds of others) had seen Jesus Christ after He rose from the dead.


And the verification of this seemingly daunting fact is contained where? I mean, a dead guy walking around, Roman Historians must have remarked on it. No? Ok.

If they had been lying about seeing Him, there is no doubt that at least one of them would have been unwilling to die for what he believed to be false. But all the apostles, without exception, remained true to their testimonies until the end of their lives .


Wow. Strong stuff. And we know this how exactly?

(1 Corinthians 15:6)


Ah.


The indestructibility of the Bible is another strong evidence that it is indeed God's Word. Because of its offensive message, which in contrast to every other religion humbles man's ability to save himself and provides the need for God's grace instead (Ephesians 2:8-9), the Bible has endured more attacks and attempts to eliminate it than any other book in history.


Aside from the fact that this proves nothing, let me point out that if another book were eliminated we probably would know about it in the first place. This sentence is logically turgid and requires more abuse than I am willing to give it.

From the early Romans, to the communist dictators, to the atheists and agnostics of modernism and postmodernism, the Bible has survived and is still published more than any other book worldwide.


So?

Over the ages, scoffers have called the Bible a myth, but archeological records have proved it historicity. Others have denounced its teachings as outdated and useless, but its positive impact on the moral and legal systems of cultures around the world is undeniable. Scientists, psychologists and politicians continue to attack the Bible, but its truth has never been disproven and its light has never been snuffed out. It continues to change lives and cultures just as it did 2,000 years ago. God supernaturally protects the Bible, proving that it is indeed His Word, just as it claims to be. Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away" (Mark 13:31). When all the evidence is before us, there is no doubt that the Bible is truly the Word of God.


A nice peroration that takes all the thin arguments that came before and repeats them with yet more vigor. It reminds me of someone speaking more loudly to a person who does not speak their language.



Read more: http://www.compellingtruth.org/Bible-Wo ... z3PSPl56Mp
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby whitefork » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:12 pm

Was the Autobiography of Howard Hughes really the Word of Howard Hughes?
it's got some serious evidences for its veracity. It's an autobiography. And really, can we question the authenticity of The Autobiography of Malcolm X? This Alex Haley guy may be the real fabrication.

But let's look at this
There is a bigger issue: if the Bible is the word of God, then God would have to exist
.
I say "no", rather
if the Bible is the word of God, then God existed when he spoke the word

That leaves the question of God's necessary existence to the theologians, where it should remain. It also allows us to say that the Words may be both God's and false.

I can't give it a rest. The Psalms and the Song of Songs, the Lamentation of Jeremiah. The Bible says these are the writings of real men, not God. So the Bible isn't entirely the Word of God, is it?
The Torah, that was written by Moses. The Gospels, 4 guys, the Epistles.... God has a lot of Holy ghost writers.
Checkmate Theist.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby ed » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:38 pm

whitefork wrote:Was the Autobiography of Howard Hughes really the Word of Howard Hughes?
it's got some serious evidences for its veracity. It's an autobiography. And really, can we question the authenticity of The Autobiography of Malcolm X? This Alex Haley guy may be the real fabrication.

But let's look at this
There is a bigger issue: if the Bible is the word of God, then God would have to exist
.
I say "no", rather
if the Bible is the word of God, then God existed when he spoke the word

That leaves the question of God's necessary existence to the theologians, where it should remain. It also allows us to say that the Words may be both God's and false.

I can't give it a rest. The Psalms and the Song of Songs, the Lamentation of Jeremiah. The Bible says these are the writings of real men, not God. So the Bible isn't entirely the Word of God, is it?
The Torah, that was written by Moses. The Gospels, 4 guys, the Epistles.... God has a lot of Holy ghost writers.
Checkmate Theist.



Howard Hughes came down from the mountain and let the unbelievers put their fingers in his wounds. Then he said "shit, no. I didn't write that". and it was settled. Except for the toofers and the like in the rain etc.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby whitefork » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:51 pm

Howard sure looked a lot like God toward the end. Of maybe that was Jason Robards or Leonardo di Caprio.
But it could have been God too.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby gnome » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:22 pm

If God were willing to interfere with free will enough to ensure that (insert favorite version here) was completely correct and nothing in it was something just plain wrong written by fallible men for their own purposes...

Why not go the extra mile and eliminate all competing versions and claimed holy texts? It would send a pretty strong divine message if every non-true scripture poofed as soon as it was written.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:30 pm

gnome wrote:If God were willing to interfere with free will enough to ensure that (insert favorite version here) was completely correct and nothing in it was something just plain wrong written by fallible men for their own purposes...

Why not go the extra mile and eliminate all competing versions and claimed holy texts? It would send a pretty strong divine message if every non-true scripture poofed as soon as it was written.


Interesting.

Orthodox Jews do not go as far as Fundamentalist Christians on the question of "inerrancy". They don't get all denunciatory about theories about who really wrote the Song of Songs or inconsistencies between Samuel and the Chronicles, etc.

But when it comes to the five books of Moses, God didn't merely dictate them to Moses, they have existed from all eternity in Heaven.

So Moses writing the account of his own funeral is no problem.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby gnome » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:40 pm

There really is altogether not enough "poof"ing to support an interventionist, omnipotent, omniscient God. One of those conditions, (or the unstated assumption of existence) must fail.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:43 pm

gnome wrote:There really is altogether not enough "poof"ing to support an interventionist, omnipotent, omniscient God. One of those conditions, (or the unstated assumption of existence) must fail.


He likes fucking with your head testing your faith.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby gnome » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:49 pm

Whose faith was He testing when he used a flood to drown the world instead of poofing the wicked out of existence?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:00 pm

gnome wrote:Whose faith was He testing when he used a flood to drown the world instead of poofing the wicked out of existence?


Naah.

That's just a matter of aesthetics. :coolspecs:
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby whitefork » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:17 pm

and how else would the dinosaurs fossils have gotten there? How about that?
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Doctor X » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 pm

I will assume you were facetious when you stated that Moses wrote the Torah.

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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:38 pm

Doctor X wrote:I will assume you were facetious when you stated that Moses wrote the Torah.

--J.D.


correct.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:53 pm

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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:54 pm

Anyway, back in catechism class, they told us that the Bible was "the word of man inspired by God."

So all bets were off on that score.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Witness » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:57 pm

Schopenhauer, I think, said: "You can't serve two masters, reason and Scripture."

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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:58 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Anyway, back in catechism class, they told us that the Bible was "the word of man inspired by God."

So all bets were off on that score.


Roman Catholic?
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:10 am

ed wrote:Idiot. Seriously, how can you argue with this level of stupid? :x


I know, Ed. It's frustrating. Fallacy after fallacy after fallacy.

I suppose it's rather easy to eviscerate all this nonsense as you just did. Each fallacy is pretty obvious and can be rebutted.

The problem is that it doesn't seem to make any difference because they aren't interested in trying to understand. And they can do the Gish Gallup and spew more fallacies just as fast as you can rebut them, so it ends up being pointless.
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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby Doctor X » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:47 am

I will pray for you, Anax. . . .

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Re: Is the Bible really the Word of God?

Postby ed » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:26 pm

Comment on a Times article. The guy gives a good summary of my position.
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Finessing scripture to accommodate modern attitudes is all the rage these days. The Bible once accepted, and even recommended, slavery. But as American politics and culture changed, so, apparently, did the word of God. Eventually, slavery was drummed out of town to the thumping of Bibles everywhere.

The Bible was also a big supporter of the genocide of people who were inconveniently located, of child murder for the disrespectful son or daughter, and of stoning death for gathering sticks on the Sabbath. Ironically, we must to bring a fully-formed sense of morality to the Bible that purports to teach us our morals, lest we get locked up for following its tenets to the letter.

This isn’t new. We can’t use the Bible to dictate our morals any more than we can use it to inform our knowledge of the cosmos. Ox goring is another matter, but there’s little call for that these days.

For everything else we’ve got to depend on our common sense, empathy and modern civil and criminal law. From a modern perspective the Bible looks exactly like the kind of handbook of first-century tribalism, brutal retribution, out-group hatred and sexual insecurity that it clearly is.

Having to twist it find a way to accept gay people is an embarrassment both to gay people everywhere, and to the people who feel they must go through the exercise. Gay people don’t need an excuse to be who they are. It’s time we closed the Book on that issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/opini ... ymore.html
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