Educate your teen

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
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Witness
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Educate your teen

Postby Witness » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:21 am

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Amazon wrote:Teens who desire personal empowerment, a connection to old traditions, or an alternative spirituality will be enchanted with this definitive volume of spells and Wiccan lore written especially for teenagers. THE TEEN SPELL BOOK contains such essential information as: how to cast a spell, tools of the trade, Wiccan holidays, and an invaluable resource guide. Wood provides 75 spells including finding a true friend, banishing sexual harassment, and foreseeing the future.

Some readers complained about its "inaccuracies"… :roll:

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Doctor X » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:15 am

If it was accurate, it would work.






Dipshit.

--J.D.
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:09 pm

IIRC, someone around here is an ex-Wiccan.

Ping ex-Wiccan please.
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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:51 pm

Yeah?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:51 pm

You know it works because it's spelled with a K.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:05 pm

Did you ever cast spells (or rather think you were)?

I'm guessing it's not for stuff like turning people into newts and more like finding love etc?
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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:20 pm

I participated in rituals that people referred to as casting spells. Did I ever think I had personal supernatural powers? No. Even while fully in I thought of it as focusing my intent and visualizing the results I wanted, with the idea that if my goal was in harmony with the Goddess (or God, or any of multiple aspects considered of a general Gaian divinity), that it would be more likely to manifest, although probably in ways that did not appear supernatural.

We were taught to visualize not a specific effect, but the outcome we wanted-- whatever specific healing, justice, wisdom, protection, courage, that sort of thing.

The most useful part of the exercise, I think, was having to decide what you actually wanted and being receptive to it should you find it available. A lot of people don't accept what they want even when it's staring them in the face, like the old joke with the overboard priest that spurned a ship and a helicopter. Maybe also a little extra confidence to actually move towards making things happen that you want, in completely non-magical ways.

Ultimately, along with starting to read more about skepticism, I realized I didn't really believe in a pantheistic or nature divinity any more than the Christian God, and that I could keep the friends, the ethics, and the useful portions of "spellcasting" as I described above, without playing along with any supernatural ideas. So I went back to atheist.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:31 am

So I went back to atheist.


That is really interesting.

Brought up atheist, or is that another story? 8)
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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Doctor X » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:51 am

gnome wrote:So I went back to atheist.


Splitter!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:17 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
So I went back to atheist.


That is really interesting.

Brought up atheist, or is that another story? 8)


I was brought up atheist, but my only detailed standard of comparison was Christianity. That was easy to reject. When I encountered serious Wicca practitioners it was a little different... no wild claims of a man in the sky judging me, no heaven or hell, no zombie redeemer, little bigotry, very few so called moral rules except not to harm.

It was a little more resistant to my budding skepticism because it didn't ask me to believe a lot.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby DrMatt » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:50 pm

And you still wound up with the pointy hat.
Grayman wrote:If masturbation led to homosexuality you'd think by now I'd at least have better fashion sense.

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:57 pm

Oh well, ya know old habits die hard...
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:57 pm

Cue one of AC's nuns?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Witness » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:38 am

Interesting! Thanks for clearing it up, gnome.

So Wicca has kept the vocabulary (spells, wands, talismans…) of ye olde witchcraft, but dropped all (or most?) references to demons, i. e. supernatural forces considered to be persons.
That's quite New-Agey.

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Doctor X » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:04 am

It is a very recent and made-up religion. Recent as in the last roughly 140 years.

Which is not really an attack on Wiccan . . . all religions started out as that.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby gnome » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:56 am

Witness wrote:Interesting! Thanks for clearing it up, gnome.

So Wicca has kept the vocabulary (spells, wands, talismans…) of ye olde witchcraft, but dropped all (or most?) references to demons, i. e. supernatural forces considered to be persons.
That's quite New-Agey.


Wicca specifically, I don't think they ever had all that. And yes, very new-agey. "Shamanistic Neo-Faerie Pagan" was the official description of our variety.

As Doctor X says, very new. He may be being kind, even. The commonalities in Wicca mostly originate in the 50s, I believe, though most practitioners seek or imagine connections to earlier pagans (depending on how much homework they are willing to do).
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:46 pm

Of course every religion derives from earlier antecedents.

Having a definite approximately correct begin date (such as Christianity has) is the exception.

Doctor X can give you more details I'm sure, but even the respectably "ancient" faith of Judaism is rather younger than claimed.

Though pieces of it of it are older, the Torah in nearly current form is at least 1000 years younger than claimed.

The rabbinic tradition in somewhat recognizable form, no older than 1st or 2nd century BCE.

etc.
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Re: Educate your teen

Postby ed » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:53 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The rabbinic tradition in somewhat recognizable form, no older than 1st or 2nd century BCE.

etc.


So jesus was at the end of the "reform" movement or whatever they were called. Sort of like a Hittite Reformation, yes?
- new minimalist ethos -

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Re: Educate your teen

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:08 pm

ed wrote:So jesus was at the end of the "reform" movement or whatever they were called. Sort of like a Hittite Reformation, yes?


My shtick about "Hittites" is based on some BS found in Will Durant's writings.

But yes, Jesus was a part of the rabbinic tradition (except for that bit about him being God).

You know where the Pharisees ask him what is the most important part of the Law and he replies "love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18)?

That is the correct rabbinic answer (unlike Sadducees who would say something about temple sacrifices or Essenes who would emphasize personal purity).

etc
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Re: Educate your teen

Postby ed » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:54 pm

So he was a troublemaker, like Jan Hus.
- new minimalist ethos -


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