Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

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Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:51 pm

Fuck no.

Another psychotic example of the morality of presuppers. For all those tired of me (including myself!) of those two quotes I keep posting (well, on other parts of the net), here's some more lunacy that will degrade your faith in human nature.

"God is in and of Himself the fountainhead and source of all reason, intelligibility, morality, good, truth, love, holiness, wisdom, and power. By definition, what God does is always good and right."



He even has a comment about a certain meme that has been going around lately:
"So the meme that gripes about God putting millions of babies to death is factually correct. God has in fact by now put probably billions of babies to death. And He is right to do so and glorified in doing so. But does that mean that abolitionists should shut up about abortion?"



My reply:
Image
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:23 am

Hmm, don't think I've seen the word 'presupper' before although I think I can guess what it means.

They 'presuppose' that the Bible is the the true and inerrant word of God or something like that?

Wouldn't that make all Charistians 'presuppers' though? If you don't presuppose it and examine the evidence rationally and objectively, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Doctor X » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:17 am

They start with the presupposition that a god exists. However, specifically Christian presuppositionists claim that Christian faith is the only basis for rational fault. You can probably come up with a number of problems with just that.

In a way, all religions are presuppositional.

--J.D.
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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:23 am

Doctor X wrote:In a way, all religions are presuppositional.

--J.D.


This. They are all ipse dixit claims.

"It's true because I God said it is true."
"But how do you know?"
"God speaks to me."
"Really? He never speaks to me."
"That's because I'm God's chosen prophet."
"Really? And how can the rest of us know that?"
"Infidel! How dare you question the Word of God!!"

The part I don't get is why does this argument work for so many people.
People are just afraid to question what they are told by an authority figure I suppose.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Doctor X » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:13 am

They feel special.

The Universe cares for them!

Yet, as the quotes in the opening post indicate, they worship Evil. They will excuse it to hold on to the delusion they are special and part of "the Plan" that will result in them being forever special.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:30 am

A primer: Presuppositional Apologetics: Christianity in full retreat

A debate between the presupper seen in the above video and an atheist.

An example of presupper logic
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Witness » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:19 am

the_ignored wrote:An example of presupper logic

Thanks for that link, I had a good laugh.

Dr Lisle wrote:Secular philosophers have been attempting this for thousands of years, and no one has succeeded. No one can come up with rational justification for why there would be universal abstract invariant exceptionless laws such as laws of logic, nor why the universe should obey them, nor why the human mind somehow knows about them. Likewise, science relies upon induction, which can only be justified in a Christian worldview: see Evolution: The Anti-science. It may interest you to know that the philosopher David Hume was absolutely stumped by the question of how to account for induction (and thus science) in a secular worldview.

https://answersingenesis.org/logic/not-sound-logic/
My mind boggles…

The sad part is:
Rational Wiki wrote:Dr. Lisle is a creationist with a Ph.D. in Astrophysics from the University of Colorado Boulder. Lisle earned his undergraduate degree from Ohio Wesleyan University summa cum laude with a double-major in physics and astronomy and a minor in mathematics. His postgraduate research concentrated on solar dynamics, utilizing NASA's Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) to monitor the surface of the sun. His dissertation "Probing the Dynamics of Solar Supergranulation and its Interaction with Magnetism" is available from the University of Colorado and he has also published numerous papers in legitimate scientific journals concerning convection cells in the sun.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Doctor X » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:03 am

A very great man, some would describe him as magNIfIcent, yet humble, observed that science, critical thinking, skepticism, rational thought, are all processes and not attributes.

Lisle does not follow the process in all things.

In the rain.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Witness » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:13 am

If I were a cynic (gOD beware!), I'd say it all began with Newton – so (modern) science was contaminated from the start. :P

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:16 am

Isn't this mainly a Calvinist thing, rather than fundy-in-general?
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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:46 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Isn't this mainly a Calvinist thing, rather than fundy-in-general?

Not as much anymore. AiG for instance is really swallowing that presupper bullshit, more than I remember them doing years ago.

Special Visitor
We had a special visitor at the museum yesterday. Sye Ten Bruggencate of Canada dropped by to see the museum and to meet up with Dr. Jason Lisle, our astrophysicist.

Jason wrote:

Sye has a web ministry that promotes presuppositional apologetics at www.proofthatgodexists.org. He stopped by my office and told me how much he appreciated the Answers in Genesis ministry. Sye has been using my book The Ultimate Proof of Creation along with other materials to defend the Christian faith—and to help other creation ministries to better defend the faith.
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:53 am

In case you're wondering, Lisle and I kind of argued before.
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:25 am

And the argument gets taken up by the host:

Image

Image

Image

Image
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Doctor X » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:45 am

Why I like sports as a metaphor. They are like a Seahawks fan pretending Pete ran the ball, a Red Sox fan pretending Clemens could pitch in the post-season and Bob "The Steaming Pile" Stanley would have the sense to cover first, a Cubs fan thinking no Bartman is in the stands and Cleveland fans . . . well . . . "Cleveland." Image

Reality, of course, shows otherwise. Seattle had no parade. Red Sox fans had to wait nearly twenty more years while enduring a few more stumbles, one of the stumbles occurring in the same year the Cubs were last relevant, and . . . well . . . "Cleveland." Image

Like a rabid sports fan, the religious when confronted by a reality that does not fit what they want, will seek to blame people in such a way that they can imagine reality would be different "if not for that" singular event. Thus, Seattle forgets their previous three "three-and-outs" and giving up 14 points in the 4th quarter, which included "The Greatest Defense of All Time"--just ask Seattle fans!--coughing up a third and huge after getting a sack. They would prefer to blame it all on one play call.

Red Sox fans forget Clemens' weakness, the non-existent bullpen, coughing up a two-run lead twice, and even a wild pitch. And there was another game. They would prefer to blame it all on Bill Buckner.

Cubs fans forget that whether or not the ball could be caught, their otherwise fantastic--later WS winning with the Red Sox--short-stop blew a potential double-play and Bartman certainly did not give up multiple runs to the Marlins.

And Cleveland fans? If an unkind man I would mention being up 3 games to 1 and then massively blowing a running play in a Game 7, but that would be as cruel as showing a gif of Paul Pierce getting the ball on the ground and signaling "time-out" in time.

Or as I have pontificated far too many times, "The Curse of the Bambino" was all about mismanagement, being cheap, and being mind-numbingly racist. The Red Sox should retire Pumpsie Greens' number just to remind themselves that they were the last team to integrate. Then someone should tear Tom "Get Those Ni[CENSORED--Ed.]gers Off My Field!" Yawkey's plaque off its wall in the Hall of Fame.

Thus the fundamentalist religious: which is all "Presupposition" and all of that claptrap is. They do not blame their ignorance of the world. They blame "others." Nasty ol' "Secularists" and "Scientists" are refusing to teach OUR CHILDREN the Truth! Nothing to do with the fact that reality does not depend on wishes.

It may be apocryphal but Me Sis who enjoyed the novel Gone with the Wind as a Wee Spudette noted that "back in the day" history of the Civil War was taught differently in the South. Lots of material on the war up to about 1863. Then? Apparently, it was not until she was a late teenager that the authoress learned the South actually lost the Civil War.

It proves positively Orwellian: this belief that reality can be a matter of propaganda. That one can "shout down" a viewpoint as if it makes a difference. As if one could teach to Our Children that Clemens did not weaken, the Red Sox had a bullpen, Alou catches the ball, Lynch runs--and does not get stuffed like he had 4 times out of 5 on goal line situations [Get on with it!--Ed.] and Fenway magically has an extra World Series trophy, the Cubs have a trophy--since they did not make them back in 1903--and Seattle is the first "back-to-back" Super Bowl winner since, well, the Patriots, and Patriots haters have another year to scream "Can't win since Spygate!"

And Cleveland?

Image

Yet, Seattle has one banner, there remains that gap between 1918 and 2004, I am not sure what the Cubs display, but can it be worse than Cleveland?

So do the Creationists gibber and meep. Thinking if they can, in their own mind, win a "debate" they somehow change reality. "We would TOO if not for those meddlesome kids and their Jewish Secular dog!"

Prove Obama is a "Kenyan Usurper" and somehow the last seven-odd years disappear. Proving somehow Gore got more votes in Florida Bush never happened. If Ross Perot did not exist we never would have suffered Monica Lewinsky.

And if Grady Little pulled Pedro after 100 pitches?

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:21 pm

Well, for those who wanted to know more about presuppositionalism, get a load of God or Absurdity (Brendan Larson's) facebook page.

In the above link, he's trying to show why Islam is wrong. Someone dares to disagree, and the fun begins:
God or Absurdity David McDevitt
Let's start again at the beginning - could you be wrong about everything you claim to know?
As for circular reasoning - the Christian circle isn't viciously circular - it's virtuously circular because it's the only circle that makes knowledge possible. And as I think I've already said - my argument isn't that God exists because the Bible says so but is an argument from the impossibility of the contrary - if you reject the Bible as true you can't know anything to be true. That's an irrefutable proof.
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by the_ignored » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:27 pm

Here's another example of AiG and presuppositionalist thinking:

Because an atheist does believe in God, but does not believe that he believes in God, he is simply a walking bundle of inconsistencies.
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
>Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
>Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
>illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
>the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
>and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
>still disappear if I was you.

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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by ed » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:35 pm

The problem with all apologetics is that the citation of the bible as an authoritypresupposes that the bible has, well, authority. That is a claim thst utterly reject. There 7s nothing in the bible that is inconsistant with the thinking of a bunch of smelly old jew telling pathetic tales. Nothing smacks of some sort of advanced intellegence, nothing. Ergo, the basis for apologetics is flawed, as is the basis for a paranoid delusional structure.
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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:02 pm

ed wrote: ... smelly old jew ...


Compared to the goyim of the time and place?

Until the Romans came along, the Jews were the only ones who ever took a bath. :P
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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by ed » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:36 pm

Everybodyback then was smelly
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Re: Are xian presuppers consistenly pro-life?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:32 pm

Image Evasion noted, bubbee.
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