Philosophize This!

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
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Philosophize This!

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:41 am

http://philosophizethis.org/

This is a podcast I recently started listening to. I found it on iTunes, but there's a home page for it too. I got tired of some the podcasts I had been listening too, and wanted to add something new to the mix. It's organized chronologically, so it seems to make sense to start at the beginning unless there's a particular philosopher you are interested in. Starts with the ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, then does a few episodes on Eastern philosophies like Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism before coming back to the West. He's like a decent college professor. I did take one class on philosophy back in college, this guy seems a bit more interesting than the professor who taught that class.

Anyway, I'm up to the Renaissance now, the latest episode which I listened to on the way to work this morning covered Francis Bacon.

I guess Anaxagoras wasn't important enough to get mentioned, although there is an episode that covers Pyrrho. Weird guy if the stories are true. This guy was so skeptical, he didn't believe anything, even his own eyes (or so the stories go). In the Hellenistic period there were 4 main schools of philosophy: Epicureanism, Stoicism, Cynicism, and Skepticism. They were not exactly like the modern meanings of those words, although Skepticism is actually pretty close. They were against dogmatic ways of thinking and held that you could never be totally certain of anything, so anyone claiming something as "absolute truth" is full of shit. Pyrrho was considered the founding father of this school of philosophy, although Socrates was similar in many ways, because he questioned everything too, including religious dogma.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Doctor X » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:04 am

Tentacles?

--J.D.
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:30 am

Sadly, no tentacles yet, but I'm sure it must be covered in one of the later episodes. :notsure:
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Grammatron » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am

Thanks for the recommend.
pillory wrote:jokes aren't funny....seriously thinking......

seriously thinking might be funny....but it's not joke

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Doctor X » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:38 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Sadly, no tentacles yet, but I'm sure it must be covered in one of the later episodes. :notsure:

Image

--J. "Degesu!" D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:59 am

Latest episode is on Hobbes, he actually gets two episodes.

I like his thoughts about what it would be like living in the "state of nature", although I think he (understandably perhaps) cannot imagine what a truly good government would look like in reality (because there weren't many examples of that back in the day).
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Doctor X » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:07 am

But no Calvin?

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:45 am

Interesting correspondence of Spinoza:

Letter from Albert Burgh to Spinoza
http://www.sacred-texts.com/phi/spinoza/corr/corr73.htm

And Spinoza's reply:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/phi/spinoza/corr/corr74.htm

(Burgh is an old friend of Spinoza who has converted to Catholicism and attempts to convince him to give up his heretical ideas to save his eternal soul. The Inquisition was still active in those days, and heresy could get you in serious trouble. Albert Einstein, btw, was an admirer of Spinoza and to the extent that he believed in any "God", it was Spinoza's God.)
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Doctor X » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:10 am

But still no tentacles. . . .

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Witness » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:22 am

Can't say I've read much of Spinoza, but his life is interesting. I have this very readable book ("Lives of Spinoza"):

Image

As the biographies are from 1706 (Colerus) and 1735 (Lucas), there surely are online English translations. :wink:

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:55 pm

I took a brief look at "The Ethics", supposedly his life's greatest work. It wasn't published until after his death because his friends/followers feared for his safety.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/phi/spinoza ... /index.htm

It is interesting because he tries to use pure logic. I mean, a Vulcan would probably find it interesting.

Just a taste:

PART I. CONCERNING GOD.

DEFINITIONS.

I. By that which is self-caused, I mean that of which the essence involves existence, or that of which the nature is only conceivable as existent.

II. A thing is called finite after its kind, when it can be limited by another thing of the same nature; for instance, a body is called finite because we always conceive another greater body. So, also, a thought is limited by another thought, but a body is not limited by thought, nor a thought by body.

III. By substance, I mean that which is in itself, and is conceived through itself: in other words, that of which a conception can be formed independently of any other conception.

IV. By attribute, I mean that which the intellect perceives as constituting the essence of substance.

V. By mode, I mean the modifications of substance, or that which exists in, and is conceived through, something other than itself.

VI. By God, I mean a being absolutely infinite-that is, a substance consisting in infinite attributes, of which each expresses eternal and infinite essentiality.

Explanation—I say absolutely infinite, not infinite after its kind: for, of a thing infinite only after its kind, infinite attributes may be denied; but that which is absolutely infinite, contains in its essence whatever expresses reality, and involves no negation.

VII. That thing is called free, which exists solely by the necessity of its own nature, and of which the action is determined by itself alone. On the other hand, that thing is necessary, or rather constrained, which is determined by something external to itself to a fixed and definite method of existence or action.

VIII. By eternity, I mean existence itself, in so far as it is conceived necessarily to follow solely from the definition of that which is eternal.

Explanation—Existence of this kind is conceived as an eternal truth, like the essence of a thing, and, therefore, cannot be explained by means of continuance or time, though continuance may be conceived without a beginning or end.

AXIOMS.

I. Everything which exists, exists either in itself or in something else.

II. That which cannot be conceived through anything else must be conceived through itself.

III. From a given definite cause an effect necessarily follows; and, on the other hand, if no definite cause be granted, it is impossible that an effect can follow.

IV. The knowledge of an effect depends on and involves the knowledge of a cause.

V. Things which have nothing in common cannot be understood, the one by means of the other; the conception of one does not involve the conception of the other.

VI. A true idea must correspond with its ideate or object.

VII. If a thing can be conceived as non-existing, its essence does not involve existence.

PROPOSITIONS.

PROP. I. Substance is by nature prior to its modifications.

Proof.—This is clear from Deff. iii. and v.

PROP. II. Two substances, whose attributes are different, have nothing in common.

Proof.—Also evident from Def. iii. For each must exist in itself, and be conceived through itself; in other words, the conception of one does not imply the conception of the other.

PROP. III. Things which have nothing in common cannot be one the cause of the other.

Proof.—If they have nothing in common, it follows that one cannot be apprehended by means of the other (Ax. v.), and, therefore, one cannot be the cause of the other (Ax. iv.). Q.E.D.

PROP. IV. Two or more distinct things are distinguished one from the other, either by the difference of the attributes of the substances, or by the difference of their modifications.

Proof.—Everything which exists, exists either in itself or in something else (Ax. i.),—that is (by Deff. iii. and v.), nothing is granted in addition to the understanding, except substance and its modifications. Nothing is, therefore, given besides the understanding, by which several things may be distinguished one from the other, except the substances, or, in other words (see Ax. iv.), their attributes and modifications. Q.E.D.

PROP. V. There cannot exist in the universe two or more substances having the same nature or attribute.

Proof.—If several distinct substances be granted, they must be distinguished one from the other, either by the difference of their attributes, or by the difference of their modifications (Prop. iv.). If only by the difference of their attributes, it will be granted that there cannot be more than one with an identical attribute. If by the difference of their modifications-as substance is naturally prior to its modifications (Prop. i.),—it follows that setting the modifications aside, and considering substance in itself, that is truly, (Deff. iii. and vi.), there cannot be conceived one substance different from another,—that is (by Prop. iv.), there cannot be granted several substances, but one substance only. Q.E.D.

PROP. VI. One substance cannot be produced by another substance.

Proof.—It is impossible that there should be in the universe two substances with an identical attribute, i.e. which have anything common to them both (Prop. ii.), and, therefore (Prop. iii.), one cannot be the cause of the other, neither can one be produced by the other. Q.E.D.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:20 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:I took a brief look at "The Ethics", supposedly his life's greatest work. It wasn't published until after his death because his friends/followers feared for his safety.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/phi/spinoza ... /index.htm

It is interesting because he tries to use pure logic. I mean, a Vulcan would probably find it interesting.

Just a taste:

PART I. CONCERNING GOD.

DEFINITIONS.

I. By that which is self-caused, I mean that of which the essence involves existence, or that of which the nature is only conceivable as existent.

II. A thing is called finite after its kind, when it can be limited by another thing of the same nature; for instance, a body is called finite because we always conceive another greater body. So, also, a thought is limited by another thought, but a body is not limited by thought, nor a thought by body.

III. By substance, I mean that which is in itself, and is conceived through itself: in other words, that of which a conception can be formed independently of any other conception.

IV. By attribute, I mean that which the intellect perceives as constituting the essence of substance.

V. By mode, I mean the modifications of substance, or that which exists in, and is conceived through, something other than itself.

VI. By God, I mean a being absolutely infinite-that is, a substance consisting in infinite attributes, of which each expresses eternal and infinite essentiality.

Explanation—I say absolutely infinite, not infinite after its kind: for, of a thing infinite only after its kind, infinite attributes may be denied; but that which is absolutely infinite, contains in its essence whatever expresses reality, and involves no negation.

VII. That thing is called free, which exists solely by the necessity of its own nature, and of which the action is determined by itself alone. On the other hand, that thing is necessary, or rather constrained, which is determined by something external to itself to a fixed and definite method of existence or action.

VIII. By eternity, I mean existence itself, in so far as it is conceived necessarily to follow solely from the definition of that which is eternal.

Explanation—Existence of this kind is conceived as an eternal truth, like the essence of a thing, and, therefore, cannot be explained by means of continuance or time, though continuance may be conceived without a beginning or end.

AXIOMS.

I. Everything which exists, exists either in itself or in something else.

II. That which cannot be conceived through anything else must be conceived through itself.

III. From a given definite cause an effect necessarily follows; and, on the other hand, if no definite cause be granted, it is impossible that an effect can follow.

IV. The knowledge of an effect depends on and involves the knowledge of a cause.

V. Things which have nothing in common cannot be understood, the one by means of the other; the conception of one does not involve the conception of the other.

VI. A true idea must correspond with its ideate or object.

VII. If a thing can be conceived as non-existing, its essence does not involve existence.

PROPOSITIONS.

PROP. I. Substance is by nature prior to its modifications.

Proof.—This is clear from Deff. iii. and v.

PROP. II. Two substances, whose attributes are different, have nothing in common.

Proof.—Also evident from Def. iii. For each must exist in itself, and be conceived through itself; in other words, the conception of one does not imply the conception of the other.

PROP. III. Things which have nothing in common cannot be one the cause of the other.

Proof.—If they have nothing in common, it follows that one cannot be apprehended by means of the other (Ax. v.), and, therefore, one cannot be the cause of the other (Ax. iv.). Q.E.D.

PROP. IV. Two or more distinct things are distinguished one from the other, either by the difference of the attributes of the substances, or by the difference of their modifications.

Proof.—Everything which exists, exists either in itself or in something else (Ax. i.),—that is (by Deff. iii. and v.), nothing is granted in addition to the understanding, except substance and its modifications. Nothing is, therefore, given besides the understanding, by which several things may be distinguished one from the other, except the substances, or, in other words (see Ax. iv.), their attributes and modifications. Q.E.D.

PROP. V. There cannot exist in the universe two or more substances having the same nature or attribute.

Proof.—If several distinct substances be granted, they must be distinguished one from the other, either by the difference of their attributes, or by the difference of their modifications (Prop. iv.). If only by the difference of their attributes, it will be granted that there cannot be more than one with an identical attribute. If by the difference of their modifications-as substance is naturally prior to its modifications (Prop. i.),—it follows that setting the modifications aside, and considering substance in itself, that is truly, (Deff. iii. and vi.), there cannot be conceived one substance different from another,—that is (by Prop. iv.), there cannot be granted several substances, but one substance only. Q.E.D.

PROP. VI. One substance cannot be produced by another substance.

Proof.—It is impossible that there should be in the universe two substances with an identical attribute, i.e. which have anything common to them both (Prop. ii.), and, therefore (Prop. iii.), one cannot be the cause of the other, neither can one be produced by the other. Q.E.D.

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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:22 pm

:x :x :x :cussing:
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:29 pm

Seriously, what a waste of electrons. Bullshit. If he were here I'd kick him in the nuts.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:30 pm

I. Everything which exists, exists either in itself or in something else.

WTF does that mean? Who cares? Talk about made up work. Did he get paid for this crap? God, Welfare Queens could learn from him.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:31 pm

PROP. V. There cannot exist in the universe two or more substances having the same nature or attribute.

A Hydrogen atom, asshole.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:32 pm

I bet there are volumes of apologetics backing and filling.

Damn, I'd like to dig him up so I can kick him in his worthless nuts.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Image

Fag. Looks jewish. What a hairdo. A man who would clearly benefit from a good beating and 6 months or so on a chain gang. He probably has a real bad attitude.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby ed » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:38 pm

Image
Image

Thought as much.
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Re: Philosophize This!

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:32 pm

ed wrote:I. Everything which exists, exists either in itself or in something else.

WTF does that mean?


Just go with it.

That's step one in proving God sort of exists. :P
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