World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:55 am

Tangentially on topic: Netflix Japan recently made the movie Spotlight available. I think I may check it out soon, as I haven't seen it yet.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Doctor X » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:02 am

It is a bit overwrought.





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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:14 am

Recently in Ireland:

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:29 am

The New York Times has a report about the accusations from Vigano. The National Catholic Reporter also did a fact check on some of Vigano's claims that could be checked and found that at least some of the things he said appear to be false and others could not be verified.

The short version is that Vigano is an "arch-conservative" with an ideological bone to pick.

Pope Francis, the Accusations and the Back Story (New York Times)
Aug. 27, 2018

LONDON — For people who are not immersed in the doctrines and politics of the Roman Catholic Church, the uproar over new accusations against Pope Francis can be hard to parse — a mix of the sexual abuse scandals that have rocked the church, and bitter factional infighting over its direction.

How closely those two factors are related is unclear, as is the credibility of the allegations against the pope. But at a time when the church is enduring an international crisis, largely over generations of sexual misconduct and cover-ups, the suggestion that Francis was in any way complicit could pose a threat to his papacy.

Here, then, are answers to some of the big questions raised by the controversy.

What has the pope been accused of?
An archbishop, Carlo Maria Viganò, released a letter claiming that Pope Francis, his predecessors and others in the church hierarchy knew of sexual misconduct by Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, the archbishop of Washington, years before it was made public.

Archbishop Viganò said he told Francis in 2013 that the pope’s predecessor, Benedict XVI, had ordered Cardinal McCarrick “to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance” because of the accusations against him. But Francis, Archbishop Viganò wrote, empowered Cardinal McCarrick, allowing him to help choose American bishops.

Cardinal McCarrick was forced to resign last month, and Archbishop Viganò said the pope must resign, too. The pope said he would not dignify questions about the claims with a response.

The letter was timed to coincide with the pope’s visit to Ireland, where the church has struggled to fashion an effective response to revelations of clerical abuse and cover-ups that have severely damaged its authority. Francis, after being criticized for appearing to play down similar allegations in Chile and elsewhere, has worked hard in recent months to be seen as taking them more seriously.

Archbishop Viganò, the Vatican envoy to the United States until Francis removed him in 2016, has long been at odds with the pope and has campaigned against what he sees as the pernicious influence of gay priests. His letter not only accused church leaders, by name, of covering up clerical misconduct, but also claimed that some of them are gay.

He has cast the church’s abuse scandals as a problem stemming from homosexuality, claiming that a gay cabal is corrupting the institution from within.

That history, and some inconsistencies in accounts of the events Archbishop Viganò described, have prompted questions about how concerned he really is about the handling of Cardinal McCarrick and whether he is more interested in using the case as a cudgel against a pontiff he opposes.

What are the ideological divisions in the church?
The most volatile disputes have to do with social issues on which public opinion in Western countries has moved away from church teaching — among them homosexuality, abortion, divorce and remarriage.

The pope’s defenders say it is less a matter of changing church doctrine than of how the church treats people who have broken with that doctrine. Critics say Francis is undermining established and immutable principles.

Francis sent shock waves through the Catholic world soon after his election as pope in 2013 by saying, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” He did it again less than two months later, saying that the church “cannot be obsessed” with issues like abortion, homosexuality and birth control.

His 2016 statement on the family urged priests and congregations to be more welcoming of people it long castigated as sinners, and to focus more on social missions like caring for the poor. And he broke with tradition in proposing a less centrally governed church, urging elements of the church around the world to find their own approaches to difficult issues.

The church also still has older, simmering ideological disputes dating to the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. There are archconservatives within the church who oppose the changes made since then, like having priests celebrate Mass in languages other than Latin and allowing them to place communion wafers in parishioners’ hands rather than on their tongues.

Who opposes Francis within the church, and why?
There is a sizable faction of traditionalist prelates who have resisted the pope’s moves to liberalize the church to accommodate modern attitudes — which they see as a weakening of doctrine. They include Cardinals Gerhard Müller and Walter Brandmüller, who are German; Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, an American; and Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, an Italian who died last year, among others.

“There are bishops who like what Pope Francis is doing, bishops who don’t like what Pope Francis is doing and hope he goes to his eternal reward, and bishops who are just confused by Pope Francis,” said the Rev. Thomas J. Reese, a Jesuit priest who writes for The National Catholic Reporter. “Certainly the ones who don’t like him, who are most ideological, are the most vocal.”

But it is not just bishops who object to what Francis has done. Last year, dozens of Catholic scholars signed a public letter critiquing the pope’s statement on the family.

Much of the opposition is ideological, but the pope’s defenders say some of it is about raw power.

Francis has sometimes ignored the recommendations of conservatives high in the church in appointing archbishops and cardinals, and he has campaigned against “clericalism,” the primacy of the church hierarchy’s authority. He has pointedly rejected some of the privileges of his office, declining to live in the Apostolic Palace.

“He was criticizing the way priests and bishops around the world had been living and operating for many years,” said John Thavis, an author of books on the church and its leaders. “The progressives were very pleased, and the traditionalists were disturbed.”

Haven’t there always been disputes?
There have been doctrinal disputes for as long as there has been a church, but they tended to be kept under wraps.

Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who led the church for 35 years, not only slowed the pace of change after the Second Vatican Council, but also enforced strict discipline among bishops and theologians in seminaries.

Francis, on the other hand, upending conservatives’ expectations, has repeatedly invited dissent — and they have obliged him.
Former ambassador Vigano accuses Vatican of covering up McCarrick scandal for years (National Catholic Reporter)

KNOCK, Ireland — A former Vatican ambassador to Washington has published an 11-page letter filled with accusations against dozens of former and current high-level officials in the Catholic Church, claiming there was a systemic cover-up of allegations that now former cardinal Theodore McCarrick was sexually abusing seminarians.

Archbishop Carlo Vigano, who served as the Holy See's chief diplomat in the U.S. capital from 2011-2016, also claims that Pope Benedict XVI had placed unannounced sanctions on McCarrick, barring him from celebrating Mass publicly or traveling, and ordering him to a life of prayer and penance.

In an unprecedented broadside by a Vatican diplomat against a sitting pontiff, Vigano then accuses Pope Francis of ignoring the imposed sanctions and calls on him to resign in order to "set a good example for cardinals and bishops who covered up McCarrick’s abuses."

Although the Vatican press office said it would have "no immediate comment" on the letter, released by National Catholic Register and LifeSiteNews early Aug. 26, at least several of its claims appear contradicted by the historical record.

McCarrick, for example, was seen celebrating numerous public Masses throughout Benedict's papacy and continued traveling around the world until the announcement in June that the Vatican had ordered his removal from ministry over an accusation of abuse that had been deemed credible.

Benedict also did not hesitate to act publicly when another cardinal, Scotland's Keith O'Brien, was accused of improper sexual relationships. In that case, Benedict accepted O'Brien's resignation and his decision not to attend the 2013 conclave that elected Francis.

Beyond his factual claims, Vigano's letter is laced as well with ideological claims about other Catholic prelates. He says one, for example, has a "pro-gay ideology" and that another "favored promoting homosexuals into positions of responsibility."

McCarrick, who led the Washington archdiocese from 2000-06, became the first U.S. prelate to renounce his position in the College of Cardinals July 28.

NCR has chosen not to name prelates identified by Vigano in his report except in cases where the officials were known to be his or McCarrick's direct superiors or predecessors, due to the inability to corroborate the former ambassador's account.

Vigano claims that two of his predecessors in Washington, Archbishops Gabriel Montalvo and Pietro Sambi, "did not fail" to notify the Vatican about allegations against McCarrick as early as 2000, the year when Pope John Paul II appointed McCarrick archbishop of the capital city.

Vigano says Sambi forwarded one specific accusation against McCarrick to the Vatican's then Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in 2006. The accusation, Vigano says, was made by a priest of the Charlotte diocese who was laicized for abusing minors.

The former ambassador says he wrote a report on the accusations in his role at the time as the Vatican's Delegate for Pontifical Representations, which was given to Bertone and now Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, who was then Bertone's second-in-command and is now head of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches.

Vigano says his report was "kept by my superiors, and was never returned to me with any actual decision by the superiors on this matter." He says he raised the issue in a second memo in 2008, which was also never answered.

But he says he then learned sometime later from Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, then the head of the Congregation for Bishops, that his second memo had an effect.

"Pope Benedict had imposed on Cardinal McCarrick sanctions similar to those now imposed on him by Pope Francis," states Vigano. "The Cardinal was to leave the seminary where he was living, he was forbidden to celebrate [Mass] in public, to participate in public meetings, to give lectures, to travel, with the obligation of dedicating himself to a life of prayer and penance."

Vigano says he does not know when Benedict took his alleged action against McCarrick, but suggests it happened in 2009 or 2010. He blames the delay on the former pontiff's action on Bertone.

The former ambassador also alleges that Cardinal Donald Wuerl, who took over leadership of the Washington archdiocese after McCarrick's resignation for reasons of age in 2006, was informed of the sanctions placed on his predecessor.

Wuerl's spokesman, Ed McFadden, said in a statement to Catholic News Agency that the cardinal "did not receive documentation or information from the Holy See specific to Cardinal McCarrick’s behavior or any of the prohibitions on his life and ministry suggested by Archbishop Vigano."

The former ambassador claims he brought up the allegations against McCarrick with Francis for the first time in 2013, about three month's after the pope's election as pontiff. He said he told the pope that the Congregation for Bishops had a dossier on the prelate and that he had "corrupted generations of seminarians and priests."

Vigano then claims that Francis had made McCarrick "free from all constraints" and allowed him to travel and give lectures, but cites no evidence of any sort of papal directive overturning Benedict's alleged earlier imposition of sanctions.

"Pope Francis has repeatedly asked for total transparency in the Church and for bishops and faithful to act with parrhesia," states the former ambassador. "The faithful throughout the world also demand this of him in an exemplary manner. He must honestly state when he first learned about the crimes committed by McCarrick, who abused his authority with seminarians and priests."

Vigano's tenure in Washington ended in controversy when his name surfaced in questions over how Francis came to meet a Kentucky county clerk who defied a U.S. federal court order to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples during his 2015 visit to the U.S.

Francis accepted Vigano's resignation from his diplomatic post in April 2016, about three months after the prelate reached the traditional retirement age of 75.

Vigano himself has also been accused of covering up sexual misconduct.

Three months after his departure from Washington, a 2014 memo he had written ordering the quashing of an investigation into alleged homosexual activity on the part of now former St. Paul-Minneapolis Archbishop John Nienstedt was made public at the conclusion of a criminal investigation.

Vigano had also ordered the destruction of a piece of evidence. Nienstedt resigned from his post in 2015.

Release of the former ambassador's letter came as Francis was on an Aug. 25-26 visit to Ireland, hours before Francis was expected to have his traditional press conference with journalists on the flight back to Rome.
And NPR has this report on the Pope's visit to Ireland:

Pope Ends Visit To A Disillusioned Ireland, Where Church Authority Has Plunged
Back in 1979, Pope John Paul II arrived in Ireland to an outpouring of love, affection and enormous crowds, including an estimated 1.2 million people for a Mass in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
. . .

Francis spent the weekend in a radically different Ireland than the one John Paul II encountered. It is richer, more educated, more secular — and deeply disillusioned after revelations of widespread clerical sexual abuse, the cruelty of church-run workhouses that took children away from their unwed mothers and repeated church cover-ups.

When John Paul II visited, weekly Mass attendance in Ireland was around 80 percent and homosexuality was illegal. Today, Mass attendance hovers around 35 percent. In 2015, Irish people voted to legalize same-sex marriage. Ireland's Taoiseach, or prime minister, Leo Varadkar, is openly gay. In May, two-thirds of voters went against church doctrine and cast ballots to remove a constitutional amendment banning abortion.

"Most people here in Ireland have changed their views on the church due to the hurt and the neglect that's been caused," said Catherine Malone, Carmel's daughter, who wheeled her mother to the sidewalk to see the pope. "Ireland was such a poor country back in 1979, but so much was expected from us. We were really bullied into donations every week."

Whereas the last papal visit was a national celebration, some people at Francis' Sunday Mass in Phoenix Park were a little defensive amid all the criticism of the church as it continues to grapple with what has become a global sexual abuse crisis. Sarah O'Rourke, who teaches religion in a Roman Catholic primary school, went to witness Francis' message so she could bring it back to her students, the vast majority of whom don't attend Mass. She brought her family but didn't tell several acquaintances because she thought they might be critical.
. . .

The pontiff's message of contrition was marred by a new allegation: Over the weekend, a former Vatican official accused Francis of ignoring sexual misconduct allegations for years against an American cardinal and called on him to resign. In an 11-page letter, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò — a former Vatican ambassador to Washington — said he had told the pope five years ago that Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington, D.C., faced extensive allegations of sexual misconduct.

Viganò said the pope did nothing. McCarrick resigned last month, but he maintains his innocence. The pope dismissed Viganò's letter, which took the form of a political attack and, according to the National Catholic Reporter, contained factual errors.

"Read the statement carefully and make your own judgment," the pope told reporters. "I will not say a single word on this."
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:33 am

Now that's a copypasta wall! :figamagee:

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:05 am

Irish PM: time to move Catholic church from centre of society

Leo Varadkar’s speech during papal visit focuses on church’s failings over child sexual abuse

The Irish prime minister has called for a new relationship between church and state in which religion is no longer at the centre of society, as the pope made his first visit to Ireland this weekend.

In a blistering speech focusing on the failings of the church, delivered in the presence of Pope Francis, Leo Varadkar, the taoiseach, said a new covenant for the 21st century was needed that reflected the modern country Ireland had become and learned from “our shared mistakes”.

Pope Francis, who is on a two-day visit to Ireland, repeated earlier acknowledgements of the “grave scandal” of child sexual abuse and the church’s failures to confront it, but he failed to address survivors’ growing demands for action.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... d-emotions

Aw, even the Irish. Soon the Poles? :mrgreen:

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:33 pm

Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:03 am


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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:12 am

He's a Pentecostal "bishop", not Roman Catholic. But that is pretty blatant. One of those American "megachurch" pastors.

I guess he's claiming it was inadvertent. Seems doubtful to me. You would be able to feel where your hands are.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Doctor X » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:40 am

He just took his cue from Bill Clinton and Smokin' Joe Bidden and other Democrats:
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:59 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:12 am
He's a Pentecostal "bishop", not Roman Catholic.
Comic relief. But then I don't make fine distinctions between the various breeds of cockroaches…

You want the Pope's goons? Here ya go:
Nebraska Catholic diocese rocked by old abuse allegations

LINCOLN, Neb. – For more than a decade, a conservative Catholic diocese in Nebraska was the only church in the U.S. that refused to participate in annual reviews of sexual misconduct that were a key reform enacted in the wake of the 2002 Boston clergy abuse scandal.

As a new wave of abuse scandals rock the Roman Catholic church, critics say the Diocese of Lincoln is now paying the price for its unwillingness to change and lack of transparency.

Accusers have been coming forward in recent weeks with allegations of sexual abuse and misconduct by clergy in Nebraska, and the diocese is facing a potential criminal investigation and criticism that it mishandled abusive priests even as it should have been subjected to increased scrutiny after the Boston scandal.

From 2002 to 2015, leaders of the Lincoln diocese refused to participate in annual audits designed to uncover sex abuse allegations and gauge how well church officials were complying with child-protection policies. Church leaders called the audits a pointless endeavor that assumed wrongdoing by the diocese and its priests, but one of the bishops during that period knew of at least two allegations against priests, according to interviews and a letter obtained by The Associated Press.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/02/ne ... tions.html

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:02 pm

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by sparks » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:12 pm

But it is: All the carbon being emitted by the rotting corpses of Suicide Altar Boyz(tm) is warming the Planet!!!11


What?


Over the top??


BTW--Suicide Altar Boyz is a new band that does Punk Christian music wearing gay-cut rainbow colored cassocks and penis-shaped mitres.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:17 pm

Controversy continues to grow within the Catholic Church over the devastating priest abuse scandal. In his morning mass Monday, Pope Francis told parishioners silence is the best response to those seeking scandal and divisiveness.
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Pope- ... 58611.html

How surprising. :roll:

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by sparks » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:07 am

He's aiding and abetting now, and from the pulpit.

Cunt.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Witness » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:45 pm

New York Attorney General Subpoenas Catholic Dioceses in Sex Abuse Probe, Law Enforcement Source Says

(ALBANY, N.Y.) — New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood has subpoenaed all eight Roman Catholic dioceses in the state as part of an investigation into the handling of sex abuse allegations.

A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly told The Associated Press the subpoenas went out Thursday.

The subpoenas seek documents relating to abuse allegations, payments to victims or findings from internal church investigations.

Underwood’s office is pursuing a civil investigation into the church’s response to abuse reports and has also reached out to local prosecutors authorized to convene grand juries or pursue criminal investigations.

Church officials say they will cooperate.
http://time.com/5389003/new-york-attorn ... ic-church/

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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by sparks » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:27 am

"Church officials say they will cooperate."

Sure. And the Easter Bunny is real. Meet my invisible friend Harvey.
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Re: World's oldest and largest rape conspiracy still at it.

Post by Doctor X » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:58 pm

Ramsay informed the Vatican in a November 2000 letter about then Cardinal Theodore McCarrick's misconduct with seminarians from Seton Hall University's Immaculate Conception Seminary. Ramsay, who in 2000 was on the faculty at the seminary, has said he sent the letter at the request of the then-Vatican ambassador because he had heard so many complaints from seminarians that McCarrick would invite them to his beach house and into his bed.

Sandri, now a top-ranked Vatican cardinal who was the No. 3 in the Vatican's secretariat of state at the time, wrote Ramsay on Oct. 11, 2006, seeking his recommendation for a former seminarian for a Vatican job.

In it, he referred to Ramsay's 2000 letter, saying: "I ask with particular reference to the serious matters involving some of the students of the Immaculate Conception Seminary, which in November 2000 you were good enough to bring confidentially to the attention of the then-Apostolic Nuncio in the United States, the late Archbishop Gabriel Montalvo."

Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, at the center of a storm rocking Pope Francis' papacy, cited Ramsay's 2000 letter in his own expose of a cover-up about the McCarrick affair. He named Sandri among a long list of Vatican officials who knew about McCarrick's penchant for seminarians. Vigano also accused Francis of knowing in 2013 of McCarrick's misconduct but of rehabilitating him from sanctions purportedly imposed by Pope Benedict XVI.

Sandri's letter is significant because it corroborates Ramsay's story as well as Vigano's claims. It shows the Vatican knew about allegations against McCarrick in 2000, a year before St. John Paul II made him a cardinal. And it further implicates the Benedict's papacy for failing to take action against McCarrick for years even as more allegations against him arrived.

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Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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