YES! Victory in Kansas. (breaking news)

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YES! Victory in Kansas. (breaking news)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:21 am

Kans. ed board OKs evolution-centered science (AP via MSNBC)

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Guidelines backed by conservatives skeptical of Darwin repealed

TOPEKA, Kan. - The Kansas state Board of Education on Tuesday repealed science guidelines questioning evolution that had made the state an object of ridicule.

The new guidelines reflect mainstream scientific views of evolution and represent a political defeat for advocates of “intelligent design,” who had helped write the standards that are being jettisoned.

The intelligent design concept holds that life is so complex that it must have been created by a higher authority.

The state has had five sets of standards in eight years, with anti- and pro-evolution versions, each doomed by the seesawing fortunes of socially conservative Republicans and a coalition of Democrats and moderate Republicans.

The board on Tuesday removed language suggesting that key evolutionary concepts — such as a common origin for all life on Earth and change in species creating new ones — were controversial and being challenged by new research. Also approved was a new definition of science, specifically limiting it to the search for natural explanations of what is observed in the universe. [emphasis added --AA]

...
However, eternal vigilance still applies.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:49 am

Won't someone please think of the CHILDREN!?!?!?!?!!?

They start teaching them evil-ushun, and the next thing you know they'll be teaching them other demonically inspired concepts, like heliocentrism and that disease isn't caused by evil spirits. :roll:

Good news, but I'm irritated that the subject even comes up in 21st century America.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:15 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Won't someone please think of the CHILDREN!?!?!?!?!!?

They start teaching them evil-ushun, and the next thing you know they'll be teaching them other demonically inspired concepts, like heliocentrism and that disease isn't caused by evil spirits. :roll:

Good news, but I'm irritated that the subject even comes up in 21st century America.
Nothing is ever settled once and for all.

It's not a question of slow progress, but of fighting the reaction to progress. The last century was all back and forth.

If THEY can turn it back to the 1920s, so can we (and win again).
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Post by Doctor X » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:38 am

Excellent news!!

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Post by clarsct » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:05 am

While the US is prone to religious fanatacism, it is rather like an otherwise healthy person contracting a fever. It is worrisome, and you should probably take care of it, but it does tend to right itself and burn itself out.

Eventually, people speak out loud what they have been professing, and, upon hearing it spoken, realize how silly it sounds.
When Religion becomes State, and breaking the Law becomes a Sin, then Dissenters will become Heretics.

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Post by Doctor X » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:00 am

The state has had five sets of standards in eight years, with anti- and pro-evolution versions, each doomed by the seesawing fortunes of socially conservative Republicans and a coalition of Democrats and moderate Republicans.
Impossible!!

Democrats and Republicans working together?!!

Next thing you will tell me we descended from monkeys!!!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
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"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:36 pm

Doctor X wrote:Impossible!!

Democrats and Republicans working together?!!

Next thing you will tell me we descended from monkeys!!!

--J.D.
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Post by gnome » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:45 pm

It's all our fault, remember when everyone agreed with each other in one thread... :o
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:53 pm

I posted the OP in a number of places.

An old acquaintance is missing the point.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:06 pm

clarsct wrote:While the US is prone to religious fanatacism, it is rather like an otherwise healthy person contracting a fever. It is worrisome, and you should probably take care of it, but it does tend to right itself and burn itself out.

Eventually, people speak out loud what they have been professing, and, upon hearing it spoken, realize how silly it sounds.
clarsct wins. :clap:

I took the liberty of quoting you elsewhere.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost2341741
http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/ ... post350157
http://www.skepticality.info/vboard/sho ... #post75712

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Post by punchdrunk » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:42 pm

Kansas has gone back and forth a couple times now with this. They are a right-leaning state, but when these elected school officials make national fools of themselves, they elect moderates in response. My take is to wait another four years and see who they put in then.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:49 pm

punchdrunk wrote:Kansas has gone back and forth a couple times now with this. They are a right-leaning state, but when these elected school officials make national fools of themselves, they elect moderates in response. My take is to wait another four years and see who they put in then.
In four more years they will elect more fundies because everyone will have forgotten what fools they looked like last time and they will be all up in arms because in Civics/Government class the teachers will be teaching that perhaps burning witches isn't a good thing. and in English class a few teachers will have allowed kids to read Harry Potter for a book report.

Gotta look out for the best interests of The Childrentm, you know.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:31 pm

Nyarlathotep: You're really not happy unless you're miserable.

One brief shining moment of American evolutionary Camelot from the the Scopes trial up to around 1975 or thereabouts.

After that the frost giants close in forever. Might as well give it up.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:42 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Nyarlathotep: You're really not happy unless you're miserable.
Nope, just a realistic observer of human nature.
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Post by punchdrunk » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:06 pm

I'm not happy unless Nyarlathotep is miserable.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:27 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Nyarlathotep: You're really not happy unless you're miserable.
Nope, just a realistic observer of human nature.
So do the other 49 states not have human nature? Or do they just lag behind Kansas in the inevitable advance of fundyism?

Couldn't be that Kansas is catching up going in the other direction, though the struggle must continue?



I won't mention Europe 'cause they're all going Muslim anyhow. :P
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:43 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Nyarlathotep: You're really not happy unless you're miserable.
Nope, just a realistic observer of human nature.
So do the other 49 states not have human nature? Or do they just lag behind Kansas in the inevitable advance of fundyism?

Couldn't be that Kansas is catching up going in the other direction, though the struggle must continue?



I won't mention Europe 'cause they're all going Muslim anyhow. :P
Human nature in politics and culture is to tend toward the status quo. The status quo in US politics and culture is 'religion has a lot of influence', and in Kansas (and the 'Bible Belt' in general) it seems to be 'religion has even more influence than in the rest of the US'. Change occurs but a a glacial pace, so I'm not really going to get excited over this one blip.
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Post by En folkefiende » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:45 pm

clarsct wrote:While the US is prone to religious fanatacism, it is rather like an otherwise healthy person contracting a fever. It is worrisome, and you should probably take care of it, but it does tend to right itself and burn itself out.
History, unfortunately, in the form of the Islamic religion, suggests exactly the opposite. While the middle ages were happening in Europe, with the church and state(s) together suppressing change, and keeping things at an even level of misery and ignorance, the Islamic (Moorish) lands were doing quite a bit of science and engineering, which can be seen via their invention of Algebra, the way that buildings were designed (elliptical arches, buildings that suggest that their ability to design structures approached, if not had, an equivelent power to not-so-basic differential and integral calculus) suggests a rather high level of materials understanding and analysis methods. The way they built cities suggests that they were developing a sense of sanitation and biology as well.

Then, the militant side of the religion took over, just like it's still doing to this day in the USA, and ran unchecked (in the USA things like abortion rights, stem-cell laws, cloning laws, "intellegent design", etc are exactly evidence that we are on an even faster path to oblivion than the Islamic world), destroyed the knowledge and the people who developed the knowledge, because their knowledge very clearly contradicted the "word of god".

That's what history shows.

This "victory" in Kansas is not a victory at all. The fact that it even had to happen is evidence of total, abject, complete defeat for science.

Eventually, people speak out loud what they have been professing, and, upon hearing it spoken, realize how silly it sounds.
Nope. History suggests exactly the opposite.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:47 pm

punchdrunk wrote:I'm not happy unless Nyarlathotep is miserable.
It works out. You being happy irritates me, which makes me miserable.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:52 pm

... History, unfortunately, in the form of the Islamic religion, suggests exactly the opposite. ...
Aw fuck it. It's no use. Might as well surrender.

"Islam" means "surrender", you know.


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