Special school programs for blacks: racist or essential?

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Abdul Alhazred
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Special school programs for blacks: racist or essential?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:58 pm

From the St. Petersburg Times (Florida not Russia)

Special school programs for blacks: racist or essential?
For decades, school districts have organized around a simple idea: Whatever you give to white students, give it to black students, too.

Put both groups of students in the same schools. Expose them to the same teaching. If they struggle, give them the same help.

In the Tampa Bay area and across the nation, this was how educators atoned for the long-ago sin of relegating black children to inferior schools.

Now, in a class-action lawsuit that has Pinellas County's top educators on the defensive, the plaintiffs say the policy of equal access has failed the school district's 20,000 black students.

Black kids, they contend, will need uniquely tailored programs if the district ever hopes to erase an education gap that has them lagging behind every other ethnic group in school performance.

...
It seems to me that whatever sociological difficulty is causing the problem, it is unreasonable to require the school system to fix it -- assuming that access really is equal -- because they did not cause it.

All the school system did was detect the problem.




ETA: This is not to imply that I think all is peachy with the public schools.
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Re: Special school programs for blacks: racist or essential?

Post by Morticia » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:15 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:From the St. Petersburg Times (Florida not Russia)

Special school programs for blacks: racist or essential?
For decades, school districts have organized around a simple idea: Whatever you give to white students, give it to black students, too.

Put both groups of students in the same schools. Expose them to the same teaching. If they struggle, give them the same help.

In the Tampa Bay area and across the nation, this was how educators atoned for the long-ago sin of relegating black children to inferior schools.

Now, in a class-action lawsuit that has Pinellas County's top educators on the defensive, the plaintiffs say the policy of equal access has failed the school district's 20,000 black students.

Black kids, they contend, will need uniquely tailored programs if the district ever hopes to erase an education gap that has them lagging behind every other ethnic group in school performance.

...
It seems to me that whatever sociological difficulty is causing the problem, it is unreasonable to require the school system to fix it -- assuming that access really is equal -- because they did not cause it.

All the school system did was detect the problem.




ETA: This is not to imply that I think all is peachy with the public schools.
That's an assumption on your part.

(bold is mine)
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Re: Special school programs for blacks: racist or essential?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:50 pm

Morticia wrote:That's an assumption on your part.
Well OK.

Any evidences to the contrary?

I'm not tough. I'll settle for plausible inferences. :wink:
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Post by hammegk » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:00 pm

There is plenty of data to support plausible inferences, it's just no one wants to believe it.
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Post by Morticia » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:01 pm

Burdon of Proof is on you. :P
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Post by hammegk » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:21 pm

Sorry, honey. The evidence is for all to see, and interpret as they see fit.
The most important things in life–beauty, grace, redemption, compassion, loyalty, love–are beyond the reach of reason. Which doesn’t make them any less real. Stay far back: I'm allergic to Stupid.

The simple rule, the greatest plan, that he should keep who has the power, and he should take who can.

The only enemies of guns: rust ... and politicians.

Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

“Jesus loves the little cheeses, all the cheeses of the world. Swiss and Cheddar, stinky, too. If He loved them, so should you. Jesus loves the little cheeses of the world.”

I'm right 98% of the time; who cares about the other 3%?

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Post by En folkefiende » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:26 pm

hammegk wrote:Sorry, honey. The evidence is for all to see, and interpret as they see fit.
Ok, Hammy, let's hear your defense of the Bull Curve again, shall we?
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Post by Morticia » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:35 pm

Not you Hammy. I meant AA. Sorry for the mix up.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:25 pm

Morticia wrote:Not you Hammy. I meant AA. Sorry for the mix up.
My only assumption is that the schools in question are similar in kind to the New York (inner) City public (i .e. government) schools I went to.

I could be described as a "product" of public school. But I could also be described as a de-facto homeschooler.

There were serious problems with the public schools system, but my early educational advantages were not due to any preferential treatment by the elementary school.

So I extrapolate from that in the absence of evidence to the contrary.
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Post by Morticia » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:21 pm

Anecdotal evidence.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:51 pm

Morticia wrote:Anecdotal evidence.
What you got?
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Post by Morticia » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:12 am

It was a comment , not an offer.

Here is my observation on your anecdotal evidence.

It is anecdotal.
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Post by Ron L » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:16 am

Morticia wrote:It was a comment , not an offer.

Here is my observation on your anecdotal evidence.

It is anecdotal.
OK, AA's evidence isn't worth a lot. Are you disagreeing with his point?
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:51 am

Bear in mind that it may be illegal under the Civil Rights Act to have special classes for a particular race.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:34 am

We Americans are so silly that we put sugar in our cheese, we can hardly be expected to know anythinga bout our own educational system.
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Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:47 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:We Americans are so silly that we put sugar in our cheese, we can hardly be expected to know anythinga bout our own educational system.
And t3h REFINED sugar!!!11!!!

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Post by eli54 » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:17 pm

So are the class-action suitors inferring that the black students actually are inferior somehow?
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Post by Morticia » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:28 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:We Americans are so silly that we put sugar in our cheese, we can hardly be expected to know anythinga bout our own educational system.
Argument by ridicule. :P

I had a newly published book two years back about the influence of redlining and the funding methods of the US educational system in the perpetration of racism.

Threw it out because I moved house.

Suffice to say, zoning and partial funding of schools in relation to local property values, coupled with redlining, the unspoken practice of 'ghettoisation', creates and perpetuates differences in standards of education based on race.

I'll go find the book title.
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Post by Ron L » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:03 am

Morticia wrote: I had a newly published book............. I'll go find the book title.
I would like to hear the title, please do look.
Thanks,
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Post by Morticia » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:58 am

AA, you assumed that the educational system had no part in creating 'problems' of inequality. And then go to make further points using that assumption.

Personally, I don't agree with the article AA cited. It is too simplistic.

Still trying to find that book title. :)
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