Parents Want Book Pulled From School

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Parents Want Book Pulled From School

Post by grayman » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:17 am

I say let's have a good old fashion book burning: http://www.trib.com/articles/2007/09/27 ... 7d9e8e.txt
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Re: Parents Want Book Pulled From School

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:37 am

Book burning?

It isn't censorship to pick and choose what books will be part of the school's curriculum. This isn't a public library.

In the context of the school providing the book, the parents have a right to influence it.

I say this not having read the book. It's a matter of general principle.
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Post by Pyrrho » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:45 am

The book isn't part of a curriculum, it's simply in the school libraries.
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Post by grayman » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:50 am

Yeah, maybe book-burning was a little over the top. But like Pyrrho pointed out. It's not part of the curriculum, it's in a library. If the parents start pulling books out of the library, what is the criteria for which books remain? Hard to stop once you start.
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Post by Andalyn » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:46 am

Obviously, there ought to be some criteria for what should or shouldn't be in school libraries, in particular - elementary school libraries. While I think the woman in the OP is overreacting, especially in regards to the Jr. High School library - there are books I would not want my 7 year old daughter to have access to.

For instance - this book (which I have read):

Image

It is full of data, information, and is very interesting. It also has picture after picture of people who have been violently killed / murdered, many of which were sexually assaulted / then killed. The graphic nature of the photos is necessary in most cases for the reader to understand the crime scene, and to help utilize / visualize the principles in the text.

It is wholly inappropriate for children however, and I wouldn't have any problem at all raising that point.

That said, I do believe it is possible that certain books shouldn't be made available to children. The woman in the OP... overreacting. Could there be books in school libraries that shouldn't be there? Yes.
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Post by Doctor X » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:53 pm

I would support it so long as they support my burning of Emily Dickinson poetry books.

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Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:39 pm

Doctor X wrote:I would support it so long as they support my burning of Emily Dickinson poetry books.

--J.D.
If you did that, what would you do for alternate lyrics to "The Yellow Rose of Texas"?
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:55 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Doctor X wrote:I would support it so long as they support my burning of Emily Dickinson poetry books.

--J.D.
If you did that, what would you do for alternate lyrics to "The Yellow Rose of Texas"?
The Rime of the Ancient Mariner will do quite nicely.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:09 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
The Rime of the Ancient Mariner will do quite nicely.
Oh my god, that DOES work! :o
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Post by Doctor X » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:31 pm

Casey at the Bat.

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Re: Parents Want Book Pulled From School

Post by Cloverlief » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:47 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Book burning?

It isn't censorship to pick and choose what books will be part of the school's curriculum. This isn't a public library.

In the context of the school providing the book, the parents have a right to influence it.

I say this not having read the book. It's a matter of general principle.
Alas, it is censorship. Instead of this woman making the choice for her children not to read the book, she is trying to make the choice for all parents whether they agree or not because she doesn't like the subject matter the book covers, and that my friend is censorship. Denying oneself something is not, denying others is.
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Re: Parents Want Book Pulled From School

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:44 pm

Chanileslie wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Book burning?

It isn't censorship to pick and choose what books will be part of the school's curriculum. This isn't a public library.

In the context of the school providing the book, the parents have a right to influence it.

I say this not having read the book. It's a matter of general principle.
Alas, it is censorship. Instead of this woman making the choice for her children not to read the book ...
Not unless the only possible source for the book is the school.

I'm not rejecting the possibility that it's a good book for kids and the woman is all wet and should be told to shut up. But it's not censorship.
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Post by En folkefiende » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:27 pm

Andalyn wrote: Image
Yikes. My 17 year old is taking Forensics. She's reading a book about dating corpses via bugs right now.

Should I point her to this (she lacks squeamishness).
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Post by Andalyn » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:25 am

jj wrote:
Andalyn wrote: Image
Yikes. My 17 year old is taking Forensics. She's reading a book about dating corpses via bugs right now.

Should I point her to this (she lacks squeamishness).
It has various pictures of bodies frozen in rigor at the time of their assault, including a young teenage boy who was anally raped while being strangled. It has other pictures of objects rammed into dead women's orifices, and of breast mutilation (defeminization), decapitation, dismemberment etc.

The book also has a section on auto-erotic accidental fatalities complete with photos.

The natural stuff: decomposition, insect activity, floaters, adipose, mummification, is in the book as well, with a full color section!

So, to answer your question... I don't know. This is stuff that a general forensics person IMO will likely not see. Most of this will be cleaned up prior to forensics. We aren't talking CSI crap here. This is crime scene nastiness, and is aimed at the homicide detective. It does have an extensive amount of information about forensics, applied and limitations.

17 years old? Your call. My suggestion is to find the book and look through it. Then you can make an informed decision. I think you'll agree (especially looking through it) that this sort of book does not belong in an elementary or jr. high library, and it has nothing to do with morals, or sex. lol
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Re: Parents Want Book Pulled From School

Post by Mulebear » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:49 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Chanileslie wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Book burning?

It isn't censorship to pick and choose what books will be part of the school's curriculum. This isn't a public library.

In the context of the school providing the book, the parents have a right to influence it.

I say this not having read the book. It's a matter of general principle.
Alas, it is censorship. Instead of this woman making the choice for her children not to read the book ...
Not unless the only possible source for the book is the school.

I'm not rejecting the possibility that it's a good book for kids and the woman is all wet and should be told to shut up. But it's not censorship.
It's still censorship. Just because she will fail to get the book removed from other places doesn't mean she isn't trying.

If she doesn't have kids in BOTH of the highschools, she IS attempting to censor what others read.
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Re: Parents Want Book Pulled From School

Post by Andalyn » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:45 am

Mulebear wrote:
It's still censorship. Just because she will fail to get the book removed from other places doesn't mean she isn't trying.

If she doesn't have kids in BOTH of the highschools, she IS attempting to censor what others read.
How do you know what this lady will try or is trying to do? Psychic? :P

The lady wanted the book out of an elementary school, and then a jr. high school. Whether you agree with that or not (I don't particularly), it is a long way from banning something from public distribution. Anyone who wishes to read the book may simply go get it someplace else.

It's almost like people forgetting what the definition of the word "racist" is. It gets applied far too much.

censor (sěn'sər)

verb
1. forbid the public distribution of ( a movie or a newspaper) [syn: ban]

censor. (n.d.). WordNet® 3.0. Retrieved November 13, 2007, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censor

cen·sor·ship (sěn'sər-shĭp')

noun.
1. The act, process, or practice of censoring.

censorship. (n.d.). The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Retrieved November 13, 2007, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censorship
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Post by Mulebear » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:14 am

From the article wrote:Parent wants book pulled from schools

snip...

Sarah Forster has asked the district to pull the book, "The Shell Lady's Daughter," from library shelves, and the book was pulled from one elementary school. The book remains at two junior high libraries.
As I said... This is an ATTEMPT to censor.

As you posted... 1. forbid the public distribution of ( a movie or a newspaper) [syn: ban]

Just because a book is available elsewhere doesn't mean it is available to everyone. Some cannot afford to buy books and may not have easy access to public libraries. Those individuals must rely on school libraries. What she is doing is an ATTEMPT to censor.
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Post by Andalyn » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Mulebear wrote:
Just because a book is available elsewhere doesn't mean it is available to everyone. Some cannot afford to buy books and may not have easy access to public libraries. Those individuals must rely on school libraries. What she is doing is an ATTEMPT to censor.
and maybe they'll have to walk a mile, or through a rain forest, or swamp or even a ring of fire to get to the book.
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Post by DrMatt » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:14 pm

jj wrote: Yikes. My 17 year old is taking Forensics. She's reading a book about dating corpses via bugs right now.
If she brings a corpse home to dinner, you'll have to force the issue.
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Post by En folkefiende » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:41 pm

Andalyn wrote:17 years old? Your call. My suggestion is to find the book and look through it. Then you can make an informed decision. I think you'll agree (especially looking through it) that this sort of book does not belong in an elementary or jr. high library, and it has nothing to do with morals, or sex. lol
Oh, I tend to agree with your take on it being in a library. My budding chemist (that's what it is this week) is presently drooling over PCR stuff and the usual exothermic stuff.
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