BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:58 am

It's not a crash, it's a discount liquidation! All inventory must go! Good credit, bad credit, no credit? Doesn't matter!

Wait, I thought we were talking about used cars.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:04 pm

If this were the stock market it would be called "profit taking". 8)
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:29 pm

that sounds right, Abdul. I note it is back to 15k

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:07 am

Rob Lister wrote:that sounds right, Abdul. I note it is back to 15k
Scrolling back, I note that it passed 7000 on around about Nov. 2, and 10,000 around Nov. 29th, so basically I think it's too early to call it a crash.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:21 am

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2017/12 ... um-heater/

We used a cryptocurrency miner as a heater this winter and it really worked
As far as the rest of the innards go, the Comino N1 (the model we had a chance to test) boasts eight ASUS P106-100 6G graphic cards mounted on an ASUS PRIME Z270-A Motherboard, as well as 3 NOCTUA NF-A14 PPC-2000 PWM fans, a customized Black Ice NEMESIS GTX420 radiator and 2 Chieftech PROTON BDF-750C 750W power supply units.

All of this oomph amounts to about 1kW of power consumption per hour. Make sure to check your local electricity rates to get an idea of how much that will add up to your energy bills.

The contraption stands 63.5cm tall, with a length of 45.9cm and a width of17.5cm, which means you could easily fit it in an idle corner of your room and forget about it, while it does the mining for you. And this is precisely what we did.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:26 pm

Pyrrho wrote:https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2017/12 ... um-heater/

We used a cryptocurrency miner as a heater this winter and it really worked
As far as the rest of the innards go, the Comino N1 (the model we had a chance to test) boasts eight ASUS P106-100 6G graphic cards mounted on an ASUS PRIME Z270-A Motherboard, as well as 3 NOCTUA NF-A14 PPC-2000 PWM fans, a customized Black Ice NEMESIS GTX420 radiator and 2 Chieftech PROTON BDF-750C 750W power supply units.

All of this oomph amounts to about 1kW of power consumption per hour. Make sure to check your local electricity rates to get an idea of how much that will add up to your energy bills.

The contraption stands 63.5cm tall, with a length of 45.9cm and a width of17.5cm, which means you could easily fit it in an idle corner of your room and forget about it, while it does the mining for you. And this is precisely what we did.
I will ask without reading the article, what was their return on the dollar?

Because if you have to heat your house anyway, and you don't access to cheaper alternatives like gas or oil, you might as well run a miner. I can't think of a single disadvantage. An electric heater running at X watts uses the same watts as a miner. The amount lost to uploading/downloading crypto data is too insignificant to bother with. The only downside is the cost of the equipment.

I use NG to heat my home and the cost of that fuel plus the cost of the unit is not trivial; probably more than a decent miner. If there's a decent return on the dollar it might be a worthy investment.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:02 pm

An electric heater running at X watts uses the same watts as a miner ...
Electric heater == More heat for the same wattage.

Or more precisely, all of the electrical power is turned to heat.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:10 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
An electric heater running at X watts uses the same watts as a miner ...
Electric heater == More heat for the same wattage.

Or more precisely, all of the electrical power is turned to heat.
those two statements are at odds.

Electric heater == same heat for the same wattage. A watt is a watt is a watt. The only loss is the heat of the bits that download the puzzle to be solve. Utterly Insignificant and probably has a net of zero.

Your second statement is correct.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:21 pm

A watt is a watt is a watt.

But what the watt it is turned into might be something other than heat.

Heat is waste. Everything else is "work".

A useful distinction if what you're doing with your electricity is something other than heating.

Where's sparks? Maybe he can explain it to you.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:42 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:A watt is a watt is a watt.

But what the watt it is turned into might be something other than heat.

Heat is waste. Everything else is "work".

A useful distinction if what you're doing with your electricity is something other than heating.

Where's sparks? Maybe he can explain it to you.
You are wrong. No matter what it does, it is eventually heat. And in this case, all work is local so all heat is local, which is the point. Where they to use those watts to turn a turbine to make power for the neighbors, you'd would have an argument, but only for moving the heat elsewhere. In this case, all heat is local with the exception of the bits moving through the internet. In-fucking-significant.

How do you not know this? Thermodynamics much?

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:05 pm

"Eventually" heat doesn't warm you up as good as a real heater.

Checkmate atheist.

If I'm really wrong, it will take a real explanation to convince me.

viz. from sparks for example not Lister. :p
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Mentat » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Dammit Abdul, this is one of the very few times Lister is right.

Just think for a second, where is the energy going into the computer? Is it kinetic movement? Outside of spinning disks and fans, no, and in crypto mining rigs the vast lions share of power is going to the CPU/GPUs. Is it light? In a headless setup, no. Is it sound? Technically the fan, but heaters have those too, so that's moot. So what's the last method for power to dissipate?

Miami.
Fucking.
Heats.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:28 pm

Mentat wrote:Dammit Abdul, this is one of the very few times Lister is right.
very few times lister is right? Lister is always right, even when wrong. :x
Technically the fan,...
is local. work is local. heat is local.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by gnome » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:40 pm

Obligatory

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by gnome » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:42 pm

I do want to hear from Sparks on this one... something doesn't seem right.
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:05 pm

gnome wrote:I do want to hear from Sparks on this one... something doesn't seem right.
LOL. Sparks is going to tell you to listen to Lister.

How the fuck do otherwise intelligent people graduate high school without learning basic thermodynamics?

What "doesn't seem right" to you? Where do you think that energy goes if not to heating your CPU and thus the room?

If it turned into light it might escape your room and warm the environment, or space, or whatever. If you open the door to your room it might escape and warm some other room. If you have windows then they'll get warm and warm the outside. If you get all warm and toasty by it and then walk to your ugly neighbor's house it might leak a little to them.

Where does the watt go if not to heat?

If you turn a fan on in your room does the room get warmer or cooler? Warmer. Warmer by the exact wattage of the fan.
If you leave your refrigerator door open does the room get warmer or cooler? Warmer. Warmer by the exact wattage of the fridge.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:24 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2017/12 ... um-heater/

We used a cryptocurrency miner as a heater this winter and it really worked
As far as the rest of the innards go, the Comino N1 (the model we had a chance to test) boasts eight ASUS P106-100 6G graphic cards mounted on an ASUS PRIME Z270-A Motherboard, as well as 3 NOCTUA NF-A14 PPC-2000 PWM fans, a customized Black Ice NEMESIS GTX420 radiator and 2 Chieftech PROTON BDF-750C 750W power supply units.

All of this oomph amounts to about 1kW of power consumption per hour. Make sure to check your local electricity rates to get an idea of how much that will add up to your energy bills.

The contraption stands 63.5cm tall, with a length of 45.9cm and a width of17.5cm, which means you could easily fit it in an idle corner of your room and forget about it, while it does the mining for you. And this is precisely what we did.
I will ask without reading the article, what was their return on the dollar?

Because if you have to heat your house anyway, and you don't access to cheaper alternatives like gas or oil, you might as well run a miner. I can't think of a single disadvantage. An electric heater running at X watts uses the same watts as a miner. The amount lost to uploading/downloading crypto data is too insignificant to bother with. The only downside is the cost of the equipment.

I use NG to heat my home and the cost of that fuel plus the cost of the unit is not trivial; probably more than a decent miner. If there's a decent return on the dollar it might be a worthy investment.
They say:
Since installing the miner on November 16, it has so far transferred a total of little over 1.2 ETH to my designated wallet – this equals to roughly 1 ETH per month. At the time of writing, my mining returns amount to about $814, according to CoinGecko.
He doesn't say how much more he paid for electricity.

Each of those machines costs $5,000.00
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:28 pm

Waiting for sparks before further comment. :)
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:49 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Waiting for sparks before further comment. :)
Do you think sparks is going to tell you that your CPU/GPU watts are somehow magical?

See if you can guess what he will say. Other than Listen to Lister.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by sparks » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:49 pm

If one is trying to heat one's home to a comfortable temp, then one should pay attention to where the Watts are going. If they're staying in the domicile, one may take that as a WIN.

If some of them go out the webz, that would constitute a FAIL.

But, it is, after all, a matter of intent.

Fuds Law, damnit!

ETA: Just ask ed. He invented this shit!!
Last edited by sparks on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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