Humans Need Not Apply

We are the Borg.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:28 pm

Regarding that Black Mirror reference. He's what happens when a human gets in the way.


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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Witness » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:50 am

They won't forget. :ImOuttaHere:

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Witness » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:13 am

Even in the arts. Nothing is sacred! :shock:

From the MIT technology Review: Machine-Learning Algorithm Mines Rap Lyrics, Then Writes Its Own

Excerpt:
For a chance at romance I would love to enhance
But everything I love has turned to a tedious task
One day we gonna have to leave our love in the past
I love my fans but no one ever puts a grasp
I love you momma I love my momma – I love you momma
And I would love to have a thing like you on my team you take care
I love it when it’s sunny Sonny girl you could be my Cher
I’m in a love affair I can’t share it ain’t fair
Haha I’m just playin’ ladies you know I love you.
I know my love is true and I know you love me too
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5377 ... s-its-own/

And music:



You can find lots of "à la manière de" from David Cope's (already a bit old) Emmy program on YT. Here's an article if you're interested: https://psmag.com/social-justice/triump ... poser-8507

Can't say I'm overwhelmed… :|

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:22 am

Rap lyrics are art?

Then fuck art, y'know. :coolspecs:
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Witness » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:26 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Rap lyrics are art?
The easiest tasks are automated first. :mrgreen:

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:02 am

Witness wrote: Can't say I'm overwhelmed… :|
Indeed, but if it keeps getting incrementally better and better, it might really be something someday.

I wonder if someday essentially everything can be done better by a computer. Probably not in my lifetime, but 100 years from now? 200?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by sparks » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:09 am

Can humans accurately define the task(s)? If so, then a computer can do it faster (not better). If not, then we'll still have to do that shit for ourselves.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Doctor X » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:00 am

When a computer does something it is not programed to either complete or do based on circumstances, then one will have achieved something.

Creating very large decision trees or adding in randomness does not mean the same thing. However, The Creators of Our Soon-to-be-Mechanical Overlords Whom I, for One, Welcome have done a good job recreating reflexive behavior which can prove quite complex. Much of neuroprocessing is built on controlling such.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:30 am

sparks wrote:Can humans accurately define the task(s)? If so, then a computer can do it faster (not better). If not, then we'll still have to do that shit for ourselves.

The latest and greatest chess programs are better than the best human player. They essentially teach themselves how to play. Although humans do define the task (i.e., teach them the rules). The computer then "practices" by playing against itself, over and over and over again until it gets really good.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Doctor X » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:15 pm

A computer simply has the ability to run every conceivable move and calculate the probabilities.

A human could do the same . . . if he had the patience . . . and could live a million years.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
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"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
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"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:58 pm

Doctor X wrote:A computer simply has the ability to run every conceivable move and calculate the probabilities.

A human could do the same . . . if he had the patience . . . and could live a million years.

--J.D.
Not so. The computer too would have to live a million years. Brute force computer chess is a thing of the way-past and it was never really that good when constrained by time, as all tournament games are.

Today's AI players use strategies somewhat similar to those humans use. Minimax being just one.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by sparks » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 pm

Computers do not learn. They simply process information based on a well defined set of instructions.

Learning would require an independent goal.

They do not have such. And it cannot be programmed for them by others.

We will get very much better at a simulation of intelligence, but our creations will never ... think for themselves.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Witness » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:57 am

sparks wrote:Computers do not learn. They simply process information based on a well defined set of instructions.

Learning would require an independent goal.

They do not have such. And it cannot be programmed for them by others.

We will get very much better at a simulation of intelligence, but our creations will never ... think for themselves.
You're in deep waters there, sparky. :)

First let me state that computers/AI/robots don't have to "think" (whatever that means), they just have – and if I remember well, that was one of the points of the vid in the OP – to be good enough at their tasks. Driving cars better than the average Joe. Mixing or writing music better than the average Joe. Playing chess, or go, better than the average Joe (or even Grand Masters :mrgreen: ). Prattling small talk better than the average Joe (and that's the Turing test in a nutshell).

Some here addressed the point, so perhaps you're now convinced that computers can effectively learn. The "set of instructions" is of course "well defined", but you are conflating levels: the fixed part is just like an OS for the AI (or the blood/chemicals allowing our brains to work), inside of that there are parameters (lots of parameters) or even code (for genetic algorithms) which get fine-tuned, for the task at hand, essentially by trial and error. Like good old nature (what a bitch), just faster.

As for the goal, I should hope that we set that. I think a good example would be the annual DARPA contest, where vehicles have to travel as fast as possible (and without crashing, of course) from some point A to some point B through rough terrain. The goal is clear, the zillions of local decisions are up to the machine.

Your last point, about the "simulation of intelligence", seems philosophical to me as I can see no clear border between unintelligent/intelligent. (That's the strength of the Turing test as it dismisses "internalities", consciousness, intelligence even, &c.) To put it slightly unpleasantly: if your lifelong partner simulates love unerringly, won't you accept it as the real thing? :mrgreen:

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by sparks » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:22 pm

"Good enough" at their tasks says we adequately programmed them, nothing more. They didn't suddenly start seeking goals they invented for themselves. When they do that, I'll concede they're intelligent and can learn after the fashion that we do.

Lot's of peeps can be fooled by a computer that meets the Turing test. That simply means the humans are fucking stupid, not that the machines are smart.

We would love nothing better than to create for ourselves an intellectually equal or superior partner so's we know, at last, that we're not alone. But, alas, the hardware isn't ready for prime time just yet.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:27 pm

"Good enough" is generally good enough for human employees also.

"Not quite as good as human" is good enough for robots if the amortization of capital expenditures and maintenance costs figures justify it.

Soon the robots will built many houses. :)
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by sparks » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:39 pm

Perfect. I'd like 5000 sq ft to my order, and I don't want to spend more than 87 cents US.

Umkay?

BTW: "Soon the robots will built many houses." ?? Only if/when they can properly parse past and future my friend.
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:07 pm

sparks wrote:Perfect. I'd like 5000 sq ft to my order, and I don't want to spend more than 87 cents US.

Umkay?

BTW: "Soon the robots will built many houses." ?? Only if/when they can properly parse past and future my friend.
At the end of RUR that is what the robots do. 8)
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by sparks » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:37 pm

I know I don't need to remind you that RUR is a work of fiction. And as such, represents our ability to imagine (change our own programming) not the computers ability to imagine (which they don't have because we haven't been able to figure out the code yet) and which, I dare say, we will never accomplish.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:52 pm

Do humans have the ability to change our own programming?
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Re: Humans Need Not Apply

Post by sparks » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:04 pm

Ask any surviving drug addict.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.