Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Witness » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:58 am

Pics in Pics wrote:MAG-LEV Audio – The first levitating turntable

The design studio MAG-LEV has unveiled the MAG-LEV Audio , the first levitating turntable! After the Levitating Cloud , the Death Star Speaker or the Air Bonsai , this new gadget with an innovative design uses a magnetic field to make the platter float above its base. Stabilized by sensors and a powerful algorithm, the platform is driven precisely and especially without any friction. The MAG-LEV Audio turntable is currently being funded on Kickstarter.
Image

http://picsinpics.com/tech/mag-lev-audi ... azing.html

I have some doubts. In other (unrelated) news, I read vinyl is making a serious comeback. We'll see.

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:54 am

If the point is "it looks cool" then fine. It could be an aesthetic choice for some.

If they are claiming it somehow makes the sound more awesome, then I too have serious doubts about that.

Oh, and as far as there not being any friction involved, no way. Something is being rotated on a rotary shaft even if it is hidden.
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:26 pm

Even without hidden shafts (I blame Teh Orange Fucktard), there will still be resistance with the air and that stylus in the record groove will contribute some as well.

This is a fucking gimmick from start to finish. Vinyl is vinyl and it is inferior for reasons which are legion.
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Witness » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:30 am

Anaxagoras wrote:If the point is "it looks cool" then fine. It could be an aesthetic choice for some.

If they are claiming it somehow makes the sound more awesome, then I too have serious doubts about that.

Oh, and as far as there not being any friction involved, no way. Something is being rotated on a rotary shaft even if it is hidden.
Yep, mostly a visual gimmick (cool, in a way). They don't insist on friction, or its absence, but I have to disagree with the last sentence: a set of coils electronically switched – so no mechanical moving parts – could drive the disk; but details are lacking.

In other news:

Image
Source: http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/08 ... lly-looks/

And this:
Digital Music News wrote:Exclusive: Patents Filed for ‘High Definition Vinyl’ Technology

The technical specifications for High Definition Vinyl, or ‘HD Vinyl,’ have now been detailed in a European patent filing exclusively shared with Digital Music News on Tuesday. This is a concept that could potentially be on the market within three years, according to details shared by Rebeat Digital, the company that filed the patent.
[…]
The ‘HD Vinyl’ name is a working title, though the basic idea is this: instead of the manual and time-consuming process currently used for creating vinyl LPs, the ‘HD Vinyl’ process involves 3D-based topographical mapping combined with laser inscription technology to more quickly generate a far superior product. Not only will the end product be vastly improved, but the time required to produce the LPs will also be radically reduced.

The result is a record that looks like the LPs being sold today, and more importantly, plays like them. According to the companies involved, the HD Vinyl disc will play on all currently manufactured turntables and high end record players, though enhanced features will be better realized on upcoming, HD-compatible turntables. “This is a completely backwards-compatible technology,” said Guenter Loibl, Rebeat CEO. “It will play on any existing turntable, you don’t need to buy a new system to enjoy the benefits.”
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/03 ... a-reality/

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:40 am

Witness wrote: Yep, mostly a visual gimmick (cool, in a way). They don't insist on friction, or its absence, but I have to disagree with the last sentence: a set of coils electronically switched – so no mechanical moving parts – could drive the disk; but details are lacking.
Oh, well I don't know how the inside works. I just figured it was held up by magnets, but now that I think about it, that wouldn't be very stable would it?

How would you make this thing work I wonder? So that the floating turntable doesn't just float off somewhere? It' like it has to be both attracted and repelled at the same time.
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Doctor X » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:45 am

Fucking magnets. . . .

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:14 pm

Just how the fuck to those things work?

But serially, regarding HD LPs--OK, so they figured out a better way to manufacture LPs. It's still in the analog realm and therefore susceptible to all the crap and corruption we used to enjoy loathe with same. Diamond stylus scraping along against some plastic. Not a good idea.

"But sparks!! They sound warmer!!!" Yea, that's because there's no fucking hi end definition ya shmuck. :P
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:19 pm

How about HD LPs with a laser needle? Really no friction.

And somehow make it digital.

What a great idea! :BigGrin3:
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:42 pm

The only bitch I really have with CDs is that Sony-Phillips didn't go far enough and now we're stuck with a 90 db signal to noise ratio and a 20 to 20 kHz response.

Now, I don't pretend to be able to hear all of that, simply because I'm too old and not nice. But a healthy set of human ears is good for a 120 db signal to noise. Some exceptional individuals can do better in terms of frequency response and there are all sorts of arguments for a system that can reproduce out to 40 kHz and beyond because you need that, dontcha know, to make accurate square waves at 20 kHz...

Having said that, it doesn't really matter due to the way most contemporary music is being produced: Purposefully squashed to hell and back so that there's very little dynamic range left. And what you hear on the radio, either analog or HD is even more vile.

But I do enjoy a well produced classical piece rendered in HD digital and by that I mean, pick you file format and then go for higher sample rates and bit depths. BTW--simple up-converting won't get you where you want to go: These things have to be recorded at the extended rates/depths to work.

There are some exceptions when it comes to remastering older analog source material to HD digital, but I've got to go back to work....
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Witness » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:11 am

↑ I'll add to sparks' wise comment that, in my opinion, it also depends on the type of music. Heavy Metal won't be degraded by a bit more distorsion, I presume, but I found Contemporary Classical quite enjoyable in a concert hall (especially when played on ancient instruments [sic & :mrgreen: ]), much less in canned form.

I googled around about the MAG-LEV thingy. Journalists, true to their reputation, parrot the designer's specs; a German audiophiles site has doubts, but concedes that there are videos apparently showing the turntable working. We'll see.

I learned too that there other products using magnetic suspension, but only to alleviate some of the weight on the bearing. And then I found (* drumroll *) the Verdier turntables. Their intermediate model uses magnets, but you'll go of course for the top of the range Verdier Mega:

Image
Spoiler:
Image
Yup, no magnets but hydraulics! :lmao:
ACQUIRING A PLATINE VERDIER MAGNUM

The Platine Verdier Magnum is not mass-produced. It is only made to special order. If you order one, a high level
technician directly supervised by Jean Constant Verdier, will spend 6 months of his life to manufacture and adjust
your turntable. At any time - and in real time - you will be able to see the progress report, to live the considerable
sum of work required by such a project almost from the inside

The choice of the veneers, of the granite, of the lacquer … of course all fancies are allowed to make your Platine
Verdier Magnum absolutely unique. A still heavier platter, special arm-rests … as far as they don’t impair the
performance of the machine, all options are conceivable and can be studied by special request.

The Magnum Platine Verdier is no longer a research prototype. Several have yet gone out of our workshop for the
happiness of their owners, now certain to possess an unsurpassable turntable. You can be the next one.
Was it sparks who wrote about "rich jerks"? :wink:

http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/Platine_Magnum.html

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:19 am

The Koch brothers could probably afford one. But then again, they have tin ears and dead hearts so why bother?
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Witness » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:24 am

sparks wrote:The Koch brothers could probably afford one. But then again, they have tin ears and dead hearts so why bother?
:lmao:

Well, Trump has a golden toilet, yet he has only one anus, so…

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:27 am

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:38 am

:lmao:
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Doctor X » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:44 am

It is pronounced "Throatwarbler Mangrove!"

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 pm

Hey, if Hank Mancini wants to mess with us, I have no problem with it! :lmao:
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:15 pm

sparks wrote:The only bitch I really have with CDs is that Sony-Phillips didn't go far enough and now we're stuck with a 90 db signal to noise ratio and a 20 to 20 kHz response.

Now, I don't pretend to be able to hear all of that, simply because I'm too old and not nice. But a healthy set of human ears is good for a 120 db signal to noise. Some exceptional individuals can do better in terms of frequency response and there are all sorts of arguments for a system that can reproduce out to 40 kHz and beyond because you need that, dontcha know, to make accurate square waves at 20 kHz...

Having said that, it doesn't really matter due to the way most contemporary music is being produced: Purposefully squashed to hell and back so that there's very little dynamic range left. And what you hear on the radio, either analog or HD is even more vile.

But I do enjoy a well produced classical piece rendered in HD digital and by that I mean, pick you file format and then go for higher sample rates and bit depths. BTW--simple up-converting won't get you where you want to go: These things have to be recorded at the extended rates/depths to work.

There are some exceptions when it comes to remastering older analog source material to HD digital, but I've got to go back to work....
Well, you can bitch (I admire that) but you admittedly have nothing worth bitching about; you would not be able to hear something better. 44ksps was twice again as much as what was available. 100db snr is at lest 40% more gooderestlery than vinyl, much better than 60% greater than tape. Really twiise as good as anything on the market. And the price was $~600. I really am amazed they did as good as they did. At the time, stuffing a 40KHz DAC into a consumer box was a good accomplishment. And really, it is the same standard today. They did goodly.

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:31 pm

Why, Rob, why do you hate things we can't hear?
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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:49 pm

I can't hear shit. I once asked a pile of shit, "Hey, what's up?" I got nothing.

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Re: Is Neil Young right about sound quality?

Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:43 pm

:lmao:
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