Electric truck

We are the Borg.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19923
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed
Has thanked: 593 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:48 am

So now Elon Musk, perhaps sensing the OPM investment potential, has climbed on board with his own electric truck.

https://www.wired.com/2017/04/tesla-electric-truck/

Not a hybrid, mind you, but a 100% electric. Musk disdains hybrids apparently. Using my previous calculations: For an 11 hour haul (the maximum a driver is allowed to be behind the wheel), a 2.3MWh battery pack is needed. The internet tells me a Tesla battery pack (86 KWh) weighs 1200 lbs. The semi battery pack would therefore weigh 32,000 lbs. The maximum legal weight of a semi is 80,000 lb. That's 40% right there before we consider the cab, electric engine, wheels or body.

I'm thinking Musk should reconsider the hybrid.

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 14092
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1970 times
Been thanked: 605 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by sparks » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:48 pm

But....warp engines the size of walnuts Listy!!!
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33590
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1749 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Grammatron » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:53 pm

Rob Lister wrote:So now Elon Musk, perhaps sensing the OPM investment potential, has climbed on board with his own electric truck.

https://www.wired.com/2017/04/tesla-electric-truck/

Not a hybrid, mind you, but a 100% electric. Musk disdains hybrids apparently. Using my previous calculations: For an 11 hour haul (the maximum a driver is allowed to be behind the wheel), a 2.3MWh battery pack is needed. The internet tells me a Tesla battery pack (86 KWh) weighs 1200 lbs. The semi battery pack would therefore weigh 32,000 lbs. The maximum legal weight of a semi is 80,000 lb. That's 40% right there before we consider the cab, electric engine, wheels or body.

I'm thinking Musk should reconsider the hybrid.
I did a bit of cursory googling and there are a lot of variables in trucking with fuel. Canadian diesel is a bit over 7lbs/gallon where's American diesel is a bit under 7lbs/gallon. There's also the time spent refueling to consider. And the fluctuation for weight stations as well as change in weight distribution as the truck burns through the diesel. A more predictable and constant weight balance would also be a positive for trucking.

This might work for medium/inner-city trucking rather than long-haul, especially if you can expedite the "refueling" part via the battery swap.

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19923
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed
Has thanked: 593 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:03 pm

I do not see how a much, much greater constant weight of batteries is going to be a positive over the far less variable weight of diesel. A typical long haul will hold 250 gallons weighing in [at most] only 1800 lbs. How is that a positive over a constant 32,000 lbs?

But a 200 kwh battery pack weighing 3000 lbs and a smaller 200 hp engine (vice the 500 hp monster they currently use( coupled with CEMF braking and computerized speed management would save them a double-fistfull. I don't know if it would be cost effective over a decade but those first few years of fresh batteries would be a bonus.

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33590
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1749 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Grammatron » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:14 pm

Rob Lister wrote:I do not see how a much, much greater constant weight of batteries is going to be a positive over the far less variable weight of diesel. A typical long haul will hold 250 gallons weighing in [at most] only 1800 lbs. How is that a positive over a constant 32,000 lbs?
It isn't. And actually probably closer to 37,000 lbs and it's a huge motherfucker at that point too. (I'm estimating from the Tesla Powerpack product)

It will take a serious battery breakthrough to make the future viable.

User avatar
robinson
Posts: 4239
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Be good to each other
Location: USA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:04 pm

Elon Musk says Tesla will unveil its electric semi truck in September

http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/13/15292 ... -september
You never know what's going to happen

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19923
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed
Has thanked: 593 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:05 pm

robinson wrote:Elon Musk says Tesla will unveil its electric semi truck in September

http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/13/15292 ... -september
Wow. That's exciting news robinson.

User avatar
robinson
Posts: 4239
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Be good to each other
Location: USA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by robinson » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:25 am

You expect me to actually read a topic before posting?

Perish the thought
You never know what's going to happen

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21761
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1412 times
Been thanked: 1235 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:16 am

Rob Lister wrote:
robinson wrote:Elon Musk says Tesla will unveil its electric semi truck in September

http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/13/15292 ... -september
Wow. That's exciting news robinson.
Well they didn't unveil it in September but the new plan seems to be later this month.

Image

https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/03/tesla ... new-photo/
Is this the new semi truck Tesla is set to unveil at the end of this month? The truck, posted to Reddit (then deleted, then re-posted) bears more than a passing resemblance to the image shared in a teaser released by the automaker itself (via The Verge). The sleek angled front also looks like something you’d expect to be electrically powered, if that makes any sense.
. . .

Tesla’s officially revealing its semi truck on October 26, at an event teased by Elon Musk himself. The truck is rumored to have a range of between 200 and 300 miles on a single charge, which would be very impressive for an all-electric heavy-duty transport vehicle, though not something that’s suitable for long-haul trips. The big question will be how it charges – and how fast.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 16862
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 2059 times
Been thanked: 2824 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Witness » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:12 am

Related:
Bloomberg wrote:EasyJet Joins Forces With U.S. Startup to Develop Electric Plane

EasyJet Plc is working with a U.S. engineering startup to develop a fully electric commercial plane within a decade, the low-cost British airline said Wednesday.

Founded last year by a team of engineers and battery chemists, U.S.-based Wright Electric is setting its sights on designing an aircraft that can fly 335 miles. That would cover 20 percent of the passengers EasyJet flies today, the airline said in a statement. Since demonstrating that the technology works in a two-seater plane, Wright has worked with EasyJet this year to scale up to commercial proportions.

Battery-powered planes offer a way to reduce fuel costs, typically among the biggest expense for airlines and proportionally more so for short-distance carriers like EasyJet. Being first to market with an electric aircraft potentially gives the Luton, England-based carrier a leg up against rivals such as Ireland’s Ryanair Holdings Plc in an ultracompetitive market.

EasyJet’s average flight time is under two hours, so it wouldn’t be as constrained as long-distance carriers by the limited range of a battery-powered aircraft. Beyond saving on fuel costs, an electric plane also would cut emissions and noise, the airline said ahead of its annual innovation day at Gatwick Airport near London.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tric-plane

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 71451
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3329 times
Been thanked: 1228 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Musk is waiting for a government subsidy.

That is the only way he can turn a profit.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33590
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1749 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Grammatron » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:56 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Musk is waiting for a government subsidy.

That is the only way he can turn a profit.
More like he's running a Ponzi scheme.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22201
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 377 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:33 pm

If he is intentionally scamming from the get-go, it seems quite a waste of potential if he has actually developed cutting edge new technology--that's profitable without scamming, if you manage it right.

So one might think you could look at the tech itself and decide if he's really got something. But that leaves out this possibility--if he has genuine advancements, but mismanagement is creating a financial problem. Such a situation could lead to a person with a real product resorting to ever larger scams. "Just until my ship comes in, then I'll balance the books" ... a sort of "fake it till you make it" approach, that can lead to disaster for investors (including the US government) even if we could somehow rule out that it was a scam from the start.

I find his image appealing--an innovator finding success and bringing the world new products at the same time. But it may be the appeal of that image is hiding something less savory.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19923
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed
Has thanked: 593 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Dude. You use too many words.

Otherwise ... A 300 mile limit truck ain't much of a truck. A truck is a big investment. You have to keep it running 24/7. Hard to do with batteries. If there's a niche, cool. Not much of one, obviously, or they'd go for long haul.

We covered this in a thread somewhere here. The math doesn't work. But whatever makes your jaws squish gummybears is okay with me.

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33590
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1749 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Grammatron » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:52 pm

gnome wrote:If he is intentionally scamming from the get-go...
Musk is, but not in a classic way of just taking money from investor A to pay investor B. Tesla is delivering products; Space X is launching satellites; Gigafactory is producing batteries. The scam is using the promise of tomorrow to pay and deliver the business of today.

Tesla wants to be a global vehicle manufacturer on par with GM or Ford. To do this it takes significant investment in manufacturing and supply chains that won't pay off for many years. To do this Tesla overpromises and under delivers. When investors start to question this suddenly a new product is revealed that will go into production any day now. Tesla was suppose deliver 1500 Model 3s, instead they barely hit 200, but hey look at this truck! SpaceX has PR issues with shitty working condition or low pay and suddenly SpaceX will be on mars in 7 years. This builds up hype and lures investment but the company just burns through all that money trying to deliver.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33324
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 452 times
Been thanked: 779 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by ed » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:21 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Dude. You use too many words.

Otherwise ... A 300 mile limit truck ain't much of a truck. A truck is a big investment. You have to keep it running 24/7. Hard to do with batteries. If there's a niche, cool. Not much of one, obviously, or they'd go for long haul.

We covered this in a thread somewhere here. The math doesn't work. But whatever makes your jaws squish gummybears is okay with me.
Smaller batteries, drop them at intervals and replace with new charged ones. Done.

Next problem.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19923
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed
Has thanked: 593 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:00 pm

ed wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:Dude. You use too many words.

Otherwise ... A 300 mile limit truck ain't much of a truck. A truck is a big investment. You have to keep it running 24/7. Hard to do with batteries. If there's a niche, cool. Not much of one, obviously, or they'd go for long haul.

We covered this in a thread somewhere here. The math doesn't work. But whatever makes your jaws squish gummybears is okay with me.
Smaller batteries, drop them at intervals and replace with new charged ones. Done.

Next problem.
Who is going to pick them up? Brown people.

You're a fucking racist.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22201
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 377 times
Been thanked: 404 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:17 pm

Battery swap stations? No charging delay, just give the "station" the old battery, grab a freshly charged one (or have a robot replace it unless there's a union issue). Pay the fee which is part energy cost and partly battery replacement costs when they are retired by the stations because they're getting a little dodgy.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19923
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed
Has thanked: 593 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:26 pm

gnome wrote:Battery swap stations? No charging delay, just give the "station" the old battery, grab a freshly charged one (or have a robot replace it unless there's a union issue). Pay the fee which is part energy cost and partly battery replacement costs when they are retired by the stations because they're getting a little dodgy.
Yep. Now think of the logistics. How pretty are they? In the end is it cheaper than diesel?

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33324
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 452 times
Been thanked: 779 times

Re: Electric truck

Post by ed » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:53 pm

gnome wrote:Battery swap stations? No charging delay, just give the "station" the old battery, grab a freshly charged one (or have a robot replace it unless there's a union issue). Pay the fee which is part energy cost and partly battery replacement costs when they are retired by the stations because they're getting a little dodgy.
Thank you. Please explain the concept to Rob. Use small words and lots of gestures.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!