Right to repair

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Witness
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Right to repair

Post by Witness » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:02 am

Motherboard wrote:Apple Tells Lawmaker that Right to Repair iPhones Will Turn Nebraska Into a ‘Mecca’ for Hackers

Apple is inventing new and interesting arguments to prevent you from fixing your iPhone: It's lobbying Nebraska lawmakers to kill "right to repair" legislation, telling them unauthorized repair will turn the state into a "mecca" for hackers.

Right to repair bills, which are currently making their way through eight states (Nebraska, New York, Tennessee, Wyoming, Minnesota, Kansas, Illinois, and Massachusetts), would require electronics manufacturers to make repair parts and diagnostic and repair manuals available to independent repair professionals and consumers, not just "authorized" repair companies. Electronics right to repair legislation is modeled on a 2012 Massachusetts law that preserved the right to repair cars.

The most logical reason for manufacturers to oppose the bills is that it would democratize the repair economy, making it possible for consumers to fix their own things and cutting into the profits of repairs done at, for example, the Apple store.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... or-hackers

And also:
Modern Farmer wrote:Farmers Demand Right to Fix Their Own Dang Tractors

This might be hard to believe for non-farmers, but owners of tractors aren't actually allowed to fix them, thanks to a set of laws designed to protect software intellectual property.
http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/

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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:21 pm

How about a bill called "The Right To Not Buy Bullshit In The First Place"???
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:27 pm

Suppose there is no choice?
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:27 pm

Suppose there is no choice?
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:29 pm

There is always a choice.

Choice.

The hardships endured doing without a product may be greater that the legislative hassle of getting the damned thing fixed when it breaks, but...that is a choice.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:37 pm

Semantics. If I am a farmer in Myakka City and the three tractor companies that are local are all restrictive, what exactly is my choice?

I'd go further. suppose you actually value your privacy. What are your choices for software, hardware and services? Government does have a purpose and that is to protect the little guy.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:11 pm

Your choice then becomes not to use anything that will compromise your privacy.

A shitty choice to be sure, but there it is.

Don't use tractors on your coca plantation that will give away your goat porn collection the first time you have to take them in to get them fixed.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:18 pm

In other words, a choice that is no choice. Hobsons choice.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:25 pm

Right. Really no choice, especially with the more complex (cellphones, confusers, and the like) devices. In the case of a tractor, I expect someone somewhere is still making those without resort to computers to tell the pistons when to change holes...
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:46 pm

Or use mules. :)
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:55 pm

You both suck.

I mean that in a purely negative way rather than as a sexual slur, which might be misconstrued. That is to say that is insulting rather than derogatory. Never mistake my malice for simple insulting behavior.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:23 pm

I live to serve. :-)
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:57 am

But what this has meant is that tractor owners can’t repair their own tractors—and if they do, they’re in violation of the DMCA. So, if a machine stops working, its owner can’t pop the hood, run some tests, and find out what’s going on; he or she is legally required to take the tractor to a service center (one owned by the manufacturer, since that’s the only entity allowed to analyze the tractor’s issues). This can be expensive and time-consuming, and more to the point, unnecessary—at least according to farmers in several states, who are lobbying to force tractor manufacturers make their diagnostic tools available to independent repair shops and owners.
So it's slightly different than they want the right to fix their own tractors. They want the government to force the maker to provide the tools to fix them.

If it's a purely mechanical problem rather than a software issue, would the DMCA even come into play?

Here's another story about this.


Alford and I sit in the air conditioned enclosed cabin of his John Deere 8520T tractor. In the cabin are little computer screens that monitor the engine.

"So I can monitor, for example, what my hydraulics are doing that's running the implement behind me," Alford says. "I can monitor the regular standard things in an engine."

And the little computer screen lets him know when something is wrong. Unfortunately, Alford isn't allowed to fix it. John Deere has a digital lock on the software that runs his tractor. And it won't give him the key.

If something goes wrong with one of his tractors Alford has to take it to an authorized John Deere dealer — the closest one is about 40 miles away — or a John Deere rep has to come visit him. Alford had an issue about a year ago; the tractor belts were loose. He waited a day for the John Deere rep.

"The tech came out and it took him a couple hours to diagnose that there was one small sensor out. And that one small sensor, I think it was a $120 part."

The problem with this setup is that in farming timing is everything. When the soil is soft enough to till you have to go; when the crop is ripe you have to pick it.

"So if you have a small problem that does not allow your tractor to operate and you have downtime it's costing you money and a lot of stress," he says.

You may wonder why Alford doesn't just break that digital lock and get into the software and fix the problems himself. He could, but he'd be breaking the law. It's called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, or DMCA. It was written because movie studios were worried that people would break the digital locks on DVDs, make copies and pirate them.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that farmers today (in America) are not for the most part poor struggling families trying to eke out a living on a hundred acres. This particular gentleman considers himself to be a "small" farmer.
Alford considers himself a small farmer — he's got 1,000 acres in San Luis Obispo along the central coast of California where he grows snow peas, garbanzo beans, hay and seed crops.
I speak here about that of which I know not, but with 1,000 acres I'm guessing that guy makes pretty good money. People buy these fancy modern tractors that run on software because frankly they are worth it.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:02 am

If he can afford the tractor mentioned, he's definitely not a small family farmer.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:08 am

ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:36 am

ed wrote:ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
No, not without a mortgage. But lots of people make houses, there's no monopoly or oligopoly on those.

There's not many makers of modern farm tractors. John Deere alone controls like 35% of it and the top three makers control 70%. So yeah, maybe there is a case here for "protecting the little guy". Still, the government already does a lot to help farmers.

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/ag ... /subsidies
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) spends $25 billion or more a year on subsidies for farm businesses. The particular amount each year depends on the market prices of crops and other factors. Most agricultural subsidies go to farmers of a handful of major crops, including wheat, corn, soybeans, rice, and cotton. Roughly a million farmers and landowners receive federal subsidies, but the payments are heavily tilted toward the largest producers.
(I'm not sure I actually agree with this guy 100%. But his basic facts regarding how much the government spends seem to be correct. There are side benefits to subsidizing farmers, I think. Like cheap food. Like, we always produce more than enough food, which is wasteful perhaps, but better too much than not enough, right? If there's extra we can always send it to those starving Africans, although I suppose that could hurt their farmers.)
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:17 am

ed wrote:ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
No.

Can't agree it's the same thing. A house/home is a basic human need. A tractor is a specific tool. There are cheaper ways to get after tilling the soil that do not involve computers and air-conditioned cabins. But, once Teh Orange Fucktard builds that wall, that'll be out the window too. But that's a different thread. :)
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:21 am

sparks wrote:I live to serve. :-)
Image

:wink:

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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:41 am

Damn shame. They always run away when they sense the power of my Ungrounded Plug!
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Re: Right to repair

Post by gnome » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:43 pm

But do you deny them your essence?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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