Wind Turbines

We are the Borg.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 32000
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 396 times
Been thanked: 664 times

Wind Turbines

Postby ed » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:13 am

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... v=top-news

Interesting, mainly for the videos.

Not a mention of anything negative, journalism at it's finest.

<off topic>
You lot tell me if I am going crazy
Not a mention of impact on wildlife or what impact low frequency thrumming might have on humans.

It is as if our rulers have determined that this is a "solution" which will be implemented come hell or high water without regard to consequences. And that the media drumbeat will just support the accepted point of view.

</off topic>
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19603
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Hiding under ed's bed
Has thanked: 543 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Rob Lister » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:04 pm

ed wrote:You lot tell me if I am going crazy
Not a mention of impact on wildlife ...


Certainly nothing to crow about
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/wind/pdfs/ ... _sheet.pdf
Nor to have a cow about.

edwina wrote:or what impact low frequency thrumming might have on humans.

Certainly irritating
Spoiler:
Image

but no more harmful than your cellphone.
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/122-a20/
It's like living next to a busy highway where the traffic never ceases. Please, NIMBY.

The real issue is that every kW of wind has to be backed up by a kW of something reliable, predictable. This effectively doubles the levelized cost per kW, and necessarily increases the cost per kWh as well, but not necessarily double it.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32000
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 396 times
Been thanked: 664 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby ed » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:12 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
ed wrote:You lot tell me if I am going crazy
Not a mention of impact on wildlife ...


Certainly nothing to crow about
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/wind/pdfs/ ... _sheet.pdf
Nor to have a cow about.

edwina wrote:or what impact low frequency thrumming might have on humans.

Certainly irritating
Spoiler:
Image

but no more harmful than your cellphone.
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/122-a20/
It's like living next to a busy highway where the traffic never ceases. Please, NIMBY.

The real issue is that every kW of wind has to be backed up by a kW of something reliable, predictable. This effectively doubles the levelized cost per kW, and necessarily increases the cost per kWh as well, but not necessarily double it.


Well, the fucking snowflakes have a cow over a goddamn spotted owl. Guess this is another point of subjective equality between death and supposed benefit.

As long as you are not a fetus or an old fucker or a bat you are probably ok.

ETA edwina?????????????????????? :x :x :x
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 14064
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 1617 times
Been thanked: 2171 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Witness » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:23 pm

ed wrote:old fucker
Hey! Endangered species! Hands of!!! :x




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVHzfUWul2Y

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21507
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 314 times
Been thanked: 322 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby gnome » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:26 pm

ed wrote:
Well, the fucking snowflakes have a cow over a goddamn spotted owl. Guess this is another point of subjective equality between death and supposed benefit.


Or the difference between impact to species that are considered "threatened" and those that are not.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32000
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 396 times
Been thanked: 664 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby ed » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:35 pm

ScreenShot366.jpg


Why do you hate gentle songbirds, Gnome?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21507
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 314 times
Been thanked: 322 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby gnome » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:03 pm

It's not like these are insurmountable issues.

https://grist.org/climate-energy/for-th ... ollisions/
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32000
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 396 times
Been thanked: 664 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby ed » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:45 pm

When there is a turbine off Hyannisport, I'll be a believer.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 68381
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 2509 times
Been thanked: 995 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:12 am

Do the turbines pulverize the songbirds, or is there a fairly intact carcase afterwards?

If the latter, selling them to the French would be a good side business. 8)

manger des ortolans.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 14064
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 1617 times
Been thanked: 2171 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Witness » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:11 am


User avatar
sparks
Posts: 13001
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1503 times
Been thanked: 483 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby sparks » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:47 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Do the turbines pulverize the songbirds, or is there a fairly intact carcase afterwards?

If the latter, selling them to the French would be a good side business. 8)

manger des ortolans.jpg


Not being a world-wise person, what the fuck is up with the cloths over the heads while eating? I mean, humans do some weird shit, but this is the first time I've ever seen that except when Claude Rains played "The Invisible Man".
4dce099a5952fc4110d4ebd4dabf7dba.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32000
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 396 times
Been thanked: 664 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby ed » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:17 am

They're French. What more do you need to know?
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 68381
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 2509 times
Been thanked: 995 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:11 pm

It's the way to eat ortolans.

White wine and a cloth napkin on the head.

C'est quelque chose de trop français pour que vous compreniez.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 13001
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1503 times
Been thanked: 483 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby sparks » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:22 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:It's the way to eat ortolans.

White wine and a cloth napkin on the head.

C'est quelque chose de trop français pour que vous compreniez.


You're a big fucking help. Dipshit. :x

(Besides, Gawd sees all!)
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19603
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Hiding under ed's bed
Has thanked: 543 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:37 pm



It is an interesting graphic but meaningless without the corresponding capacity factor. For wind it is usually 1/8th (older/landbased) to 1/3rd (newer/offshore) nameplate.

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 13001
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1503 times
Been thanked: 483 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby sparks » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:41 pm

What's the big deal? So they blow up, kill birds and fall over. I call that a triple win!!
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 14064
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 1617 times
Been thanked: 2171 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Witness » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:19 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:C'est quelque chose de trop français pour que vous compreniez.
Perfect sentence! :figamagee:

The Telegraph wrote:Why French chefs want us to eat this bird – head, bones, beak and all

The customary way of eating ortolan, a delicate songbird, involves the diner covering his or her head with a large napkin. Tradition dictates that this is to shield – from God’s eyes – the shame of such a decadent and disgraceful act. [BS. The real true French-o reason is that none of the delicate perfume must be lost.]
[…]
Killing and selling the bird, a member of the bunting family, has been banned in France since the late 1990s, though the ban was not strictly enforced until 2007. The government, at the time, decided to act after poachers caught vast numbers to supply restaurants. France’s League for the Protection of Birds claimed ortolan numbers plunged 30 per cent between 1997 and 2007 as a result.

But the rarity of the bird is not the only reason why killing it is so controversial. It is the method in which they are dispatched.

Hunters catch the birds using traps set in fields during their migratory season (when they fly to Africa). They are then kept in covered cages, encouraging them to gorge on grain in order to double their size. It is said that Roman Emperors stabbed out ortolans’ eyes in order to make the birds think it was night, making them eat even more.

They are then thrown alive into a vat of Armagnac, a trick that manages to both drown and marinade the animal at the same time. Killing two birds with one glug, as it were.

French chefs argue that “it’s not a bad way to die”.
[…]
Then comes the eating – part pagan ritual, part essay in gluttony. The birds are cooked for eight minutes and served with their heads still attached. After the shame-hiding napkin is placed over the diner’s head (helping, too, to trap the aroma of the dish), the ortolan is popped in its entirety into the diner’s mouth, who then proceeds to eat everything including the head and bones.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/11102100/Why-French-chefs-want-us-to-eat-this-bird-head-bones-beak-and-all.html

Image

Details on the bird (which, alas, I've never seen in the wild): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortolan_bunting.
Ambelopoulia, a Greek custom of eating songbirds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambelopoulia.
Mitterrand's last meal: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5223077.

The problem, apart from the culinary part, is the ortolan's distribution. A global map suggests everything's OK:

Image

But in fact its nesting places are extremely localized, e. g. all of Switzerland here:

Image

So it's not that difficult to wipe them out.



P. – S. There are projects to reintroduce the Hermit ibis in Europe from colonies in North Africa (Wiki sayeth Morocco, but I've seen them in Algeria), who was exterminated there ~ XVIIth century.
Ugly as sin but allegedly very tasty…

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 20355
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1254 times
Been thanked: 1033 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:08 am

Witness wrote: Tradition dictates that this is to shield – from God’s eyes – the shame of such a decadent and disgraceful act.


I like it!

Although, one might think fooling an omniscient being would be harder than fooling an infant. :notsure:
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 14064
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 1617 times
Been thanked: 2171 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Witness » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:35 am

Related (or do we have a specific "electric cars" thread?):
Bloomberg wrote:Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

Electric buses were seen as a joke at an industry conference in Belgium seven years ago when the Chinese manufacturer BYD Co. showed an early model.

“Everyone was laughing at BYD for making a toy,” recalled Isbrand Ho, the Shenzhen-based company’s managing director in Europe. “And look now. Everyone has one.”

Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.

The numbers are staggering. China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

All this is starting to make an observable reduction in fuel demand. And because they consume 30 times more fuel than average sized cars, their impact on energy use so far has become much greater than the than the passenger sedans produced companies from Tesla Inc. to Toyota Motor Corp.

For every 1,000 battery-powered buses on the road, about 500 barrels a day of diesel fuel will be displaced from the market, according to BNEF calculations. This year, the volume of fuel buses take off the market may rise 37 percent to 279,000 barrels a day, about as much oil as Greece consumes, according to BNEF.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-23/electric-buses-are-hurting-the-oil-industry

Image

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21507
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 314 times
Been thanked: 322 times

Re: Wind Turbines

Postby gnome » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:19 pm

Witness wrote:
The Telegraph wrote:Why French chefs want us to eat this bird – head, bones, beak and all


Et le dos
Et le dos
Et le cou
Et le cou
Et le nez
Et le nez
Et le bec
Et le bec
Et la tete
Et la tete

je te plumerai
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2


Return to “Science, Mathematics & Technology”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 0 guests