Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by ed » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:42 am

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
... in favor of some restrictions for abortion ...
That is why.

Which illustrates why I think specific legislation would be better that just relying on the penumbras of the constitution.

After all, they do it with (other) civil rights legislation all the time.
The "restrictions" are fair enough under Roe, the issue is when those "restrictions" are done in bad faith. The flavor of the month is using "the health of the mother" as a pretense to ram through all sorts of bullshit that make it far more difficult, if not impossible to have a procedure that is as safe as if not safer than any minor medical procedure done under far less restriction. Getting wisdom teeth removed or a colonoscopy is more dangerous.

That's where the action is now. States trying to close abortion clinics and then making people jump through hoops under time pressure, using the "health of the mother" as a pretext.

You don't have to overturn Roe to make Roe a nullity. That is done by not at all questioning states that use this bad faith approach.
If elected officials pass laws to restrict abortion and they get reelected and the voters let that organization stand, isn't that the way things are supposed to work?
Seriously. Isn't the "outrage" over a SCOTUS review of Roe because some feel that if the decision reverts to the states the will of the people might not reflect the "right" result? That the elites should be able to have their world view be the law of the land?

I am personally in favor of giving women the right to choose but the arrogance of the left is really breathtaking. The assumption is that Roe is right and true and the way things ought to be and anyone who disagrees is a Nazi, or worse. And that if a group of citizens choose to support a different view they are evil and diseased in some way. Wow.
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:38 pm

I am very skeptical of this piece, but I still think they should get off my lawn just on GP. :oldman:

Poll Finds 57% of Millennials Don’t Even Know Roe v. Wade is About Abortion
Life Site (Roman Catholic apologist)
...

“Millennials think that Roe v. Wade happened right after the American Revolution,” Celinda Lake, president of Lake Research, said on a Friday episode of “What America’s Thinking,” a show on Hill.TV about polls and public opinion.

...
Sounds just like something I might make up 4 teh LULz. 8)
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:06 pm

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
... in favor of some restrictions for abortion ...
That is why.

Which illustrates why I think specific legislation would be better that just relying on the penumbras of the constitution.

After all, they do it with (other) civil rights legislation all the time.
The "restrictions" are fair enough under Roe, the issue is when those "restrictions" are done in bad faith. The flavor of the month is using "the health of the mother" as a pretense to ram through all sorts of bullshit that make it far more difficult, if not impossible to have a procedure that is as safe as if not safer than any minor medical procedure done under far less restriction. Getting wisdom teeth removed or a colonoscopy is more dangerous.

That's where the action is now. States trying to close abortion clinics and then making people jump through hoops under time pressure, using the "health of the mother" as a pretext.

You don't have to overturn Roe to make Roe a nullity. That is done by not at all questioning states that use this bad faith approach.
If elected officials pass laws to restrict abortion and they get reelected and the voters let that organization stand, isn't that the way things are supposed to work?
Only if the constitution is seen as advisory rather than legally binding. If the constitution is legally binding then it can not be violated or changed by legislation.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:17 pm

ed wrote: Seriously. Isn't the "outrage" over a SCOTUS review of Roe because some feel that if the decision reverts to the states the will of the people might not reflect the "right" result? That the elites should be able to have their world view be the law of the land?
The use of "elites" here is bullshit.


I am personally in favor of giving women the right to choose but the arrogance of the left is really breathtaking. The assumption is that Roe is right and true and the way things ought to be and anyone who disagrees is a Nazi, or worse. And that if a group of citizens choose to support a different view they are evil and diseased in some way. Wow.
This is blather.

Rights as reflected in Roe are rights. Whether it is the way things ought to be, it is the way things are.

The rest of this "poor little us being abused by those elitist liberals" crap is tired.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:34 pm

Hey RCC!

Does this story sound plausible to you? What is the legality of such a thing?

Gov. Cuomo says he'll sue if the Supreme Court rolls back Roe v. Wade (WABC)
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:16 pm

Roe v. Wade isn't even the most recent case he should be referencing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_P ... d_v._Casey

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:43 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Hey RCC!

Does this story sound plausible to you? What is the legality of such a thing?

Gov. Cuomo says he'll sue if the Supreme Court rolls back Roe v. Wade (WABC)
That's one of those things that begs for context. Sue who and for what?

The lack of context and the absurdity of the suggestion lead me to assume that this is distorted in some way. At least I hope so for Cuomo's sake.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:50 pm

Grammatron wrote:Roe v. Wade isn't even the most recent case he should be referencing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_P ... d_v._Casey
The Court's plurality opinion reaffirmed the central holding of Roe v. Wade

When a case such as Roe is mentioned, it is meant to include the cases that follow Roe. Casey is one of those.

A court simply overturning the Casey case would be a huge, huge positive for abortion rights.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by xouper » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:35 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Hey RCC!

Does this story sound plausible to you? What is the legality of such a thing?

Gov. Cuomo says he'll sue if the Supreme Court rolls back Roe v. Wade (WABC)
That's one of those things that begs for context. Sue who and for what?

The lack of context and the absurdity of the suggestion lead me to assume that this is distorted in some way. At least I hope so for Cuomo's sake.
Begs for context, I agree. Here's what he is quoted as saying:
https://www.whec.com/news/protecting-roe-v-wade/4985286/ wrote:
Cuomo released the following statement Wednesday afternoon:

"We now need to codify Roe v. Wade, which will actually increase the protections in New York. God forbid they do what they intend to do. I want to get it done before the Supreme Court does that because I don't want any gaps in a woman's right to protection."

He continues by saying, "we have a better legal case when the Supreme Court acts because I will sue when the Supreme Court acts and I want the New York State law in place."
Perhaps they quoted him out of context. As you say, it is not clear from that statement who he intends to sue, or for what.

Nonetheless, Cuomo has a long history of saying absurd and stupid shit, so I would not be surprised if there were no other context.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:44 pm

xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Hey RCC!

Does this story sound plausible to you? What is the legality of such a thing?

Gov. Cuomo says he'll sue if the Supreme Court rolls back Roe v. Wade (WABC)
That's one of those things that begs for context. Sue who and for what?

The lack of context and the absurdity of the suggestion lead me to assume that this is distorted in some way. At least I hope so for Cuomo's sake.
Begs for context, I agree. Here's what he is quoted as saying:
https://www.whec.com/news/protecting-roe-v-wade/4985286/ wrote:
Cuomo released the following statement Wednesday afternoon:

"We now need to codify Roe v. Wade, which will actually increase the protections in New York. God forbid they do what they intend to do. I want to get it done before the Supreme Court does that because I don't want any gaps in a woman's right to protection."

He continues by saying, "we have a better legal case when the Supreme Court acts because I will sue when the Supreme Court acts and I want the New York State law in place."
Perhaps they quoted him out of context. As you say, it is not clear from that statement who he intends to sue, or for what.

Nonetheless, Cuomo has a long history of saying absurd and stupid shit, so I would not be surprised if there were no other context.
My best guess given this is that he thinks the SCOTUS would outright ban abortion nationwide, so the state law needs to be in place for the next set of challenges. It would be an (to put it mildly) unlikely ruling.

So, I'm leaning towards this being stupid. I understand the idea of cleaning up NY's abortion law if there are some old anti-abortion ones on the books that are not enforceable due to Roe but would be if Roe were tossed, but that is about it.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by xouper » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:12 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:My best guess given this is that he thinks the SCOTUS would outright ban abortion nationwide, . . . It would be an (to put it mildly) unlikely ruling.
I am inclined to agree with you on that.

Here's another thing I agree with:
RCC: Act II wrote:Rights as reflected in Roe are rights. Whether it is the way things ought to be, it is the way things are.
The Bill of Rights is supposed to prevent rights from being infringed by a simple majority vote. And I assume that includes the Second and Ninth Amendments.

I am not (yet) clear on whether it is better to have rights protected by legislation or by court rulings.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:45 pm

xouper wrote:I am not (yet) clear on whether it is better to have rights protected by legislation or by court rulings.
We need both.

Historical example:

The 15th amendment was not properly enforced by the Federal government from the end of reconstruction until the Voting Right Act of 1965.
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by ed » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 pm

Coumo is positioning himself for a run in 2020. Thats all
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:57 pm

ed wrote:Coumo is positioning himself for a run in 2020. Thats all
But does he have gravitas? :BigGrin3:
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:21 pm

ed wrote:Coumo is positioning himself for a run in 2020. Thats all
He's got roughly the same chance that I do. He'll be mildly fortunate to win his primary.

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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:25 pm

His old man had gravitas. :)
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:26 pm

But seriously folks, the only thing Governor Cuomo is running for is Governor-for-life.
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:29 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:But seriously folks, the only thing Governor Cuomo is running for is Governor-for-life.
I remember it being the concensus here that Trump wasn’t entirely serious about running either. Yet here we are
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:30 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:But seriously folks, the only thing Governor Cuomo is running for is Governor-for-life.
I remember it being the concensus here that Trump wasn’t entirely serious about running either. Yet here we are
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Re: Justice Kennedy Announces Retirement

Post by Carr » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:38 am

There's no double-postin' in the building!
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