Iran Nuke Deal

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:19 pm

Ok, so if I'm reading you correctly the problem with the Iran agreement wasn't in the details, but that we shouldn't have accepted any agreement at all? I would guess that amounts to a policy of sanctions until they come too close to nuclear capacity, and then bombings.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:20 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:A "deal"?

An enforceable treaty?

Be more specific.
That's a detail question. I'm hearing the entire concept of a diplomatic solution other than ultimatums being questioned.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Grammatron » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:12 pm

gnome wrote:Ok, so if I'm reading you correctly ...
I am not so sure.

Let me ask you this, in your opinion what should we (US of A) hope to get out of the deal with Iran?

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:03 pm

I am hereby limiting gnome to old-twitter restrictions.

We have a rule. No small crazy countries can build nukes. We define crazy and small. And if they try we will ...

what? what will we do?

See, that is the problem. We're [act like] pussies militarily. Economically, we ain't what we used to be.

P. fucking S. I have a whole diatribe waiting on [act like] but it basically boils down to 'we are acting like pussies'. Can't say it is a bad thing either. Let France fix them. Nobody is going to throw a nuke because it is suicide. So fuck it. I don't care.

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:14 pm

I'll admit to a tendency to overexplain.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:39 pm

"I talk to much"
less words. :)

Seriously. Just bomb the fuck out of their facilities. No apologies. If necessary, send in troops. I'll go. I have gone. Otherwise, fuck it. I like fuck it. Fuck it is good enough for me. I'm old. Too old to go. Bye. Otherwise I'll send my kids. They broke me just fine. They should be able to break them too.

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:04 pm

The Iranian regime, thinking in historical nationalistic terms as well as being Muslim fanatics, want to be a world power ("again").

They will not give up nukes (if they have them).

And unlike NK, they already have orbital launch capability.

What's holding them back is lack of industrial capacity. They know this and are working on it.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:33 pm

So Mattis and the Joint Chiefs of staff don't know what they are talking about?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:36 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:So Mattis and the Joint Chiefs of staff don't know what they are talking about?
They might very well know what they are doing.

That is not the same thing.

It's diplomacy. :coolspecs:

I hope. :notsure:
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:46 pm

Rob Lister wrote:"I talk to much"
less words. :)

Seriously. Just bomb the fuck out of their facilities. No apologies. If necessary, send in troops. I'll go. I have gone. Otherwise, fuck it. I like fuck it. Fuck it is good enough for me. I'm old. Too old to go. Bye. Otherwise I'll send my kids. They broke me just fine. They should be able to break them too.
Make the Israelis do it. That's why we give them 4 billion in aid every year and all the best tanks and planes and so on.

I wonder what would have happened if back in 90 we had just said "Kuwait? Not our problem. Call us if a democracy gets invaded." Sell arms to the Saudis if necessary to keep the oil flowing but keep our troops out of the region. Or alternatively if we had left after the first gulf war instead of keeping troops there permanently.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:07 am

We arm the Israelis so they can protect themselves from all those other folks in the region, many of whom we also arm.

And the money ends up in American hands, specifically the "defense" industry.

And I don't mind saying "we" in this context, because although I disapprove it's still our money.

Think of it as an American jobs program that just happens to have a mess of collateral damage.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:03 am

You're so cynical. We keep them because we need oil. We keep israel because we like to fuck with them.

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:16 pm

We could get the oil merely by paying for it.

War tends to drive up the price without increasing the profits, because there is still not a shortage for "profiteering".

So it's a trade off. A little less profit in an immensely profitable industry (oil), but in effect a huge subsidy for merchants of death.

Case in point -- The First Gulf War.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Skeeve » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 pm

EMBARRASSING: Europeans Realizing Trump Was Right About Iran
It must be murder for them to admit it, but suddenly Western European leaders are realizing President Trump was right about ditching the Iran nuclear treaty.

On Tuesday, diplomats from the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and France suddenly expressed their concern because of an Iranian medium-range ballistic missile test on Saturday.

The U.S. government stated that the missile Iran tested could reach Europe and the Middle East. According to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, the missile could carry multiple warheads and violated of Security Council Resolution 2231, which instructed Iran to refrain from “any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology.”
...
As Fox News reports, the European ambassadors joined in expressing their concern:
U.K. Ambassador Karen Pierce called the actions "part and parcel of Iran's destabilizing activities in the region." Her comments echo U.K. Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt, who said Saturday that he was “deeply concerned by Iran’s actions," even as he reiterated support for the nuclear deal. “Provocative, threatening and inconsistent with UNSCR 2231. Our support for JCPoA in no way lessens our concern at Iran’s destabilising missile programme and determination that it should cease,” he tweeted.
Dutch Ambassador Karel van Oosterom added, “This kind of ballistic missile activity is inconsistent with the JCPoA , especially Annex B which calls on Iran not to engage in these kinds of activities.” Even French Ambassador François Delattre avowed the test was "inconsistent" with the resolution, urging Iran to "immediately cease any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be able to carry nuclear weapons, including launches using ballistic missile technology."

Still, the group displayed its usual pusillanimous attitude when it came to Iran, with the resolution stating it only “calls upon” Iran to stop its ballistic tests instead of demanding a cessation.
:lol:
On Tuesday, U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley, in her typically blunt manner, stated that the ballistic test was "dangerous and concerning, but not surprising" adding, “The United States has repeatedly warned the world about Iran’s deliberate efforts to destabilize the Middle East and defy international norms.
Well, when a significant (but growing) portion of their population are wogs...perhaps they feel that they have to be a bit pusillanimous...
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:53 pm

So Iran is testing ballistic missiles. Testing. Meanwhile American ballistic missiles are being used in an actual war in Yemen. But they're the ones destabilizing the Middle East and defying international norms.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:14 am

Iran will nuke Israel as soon as they can, and follow it up with an ultimatum to Saudi Arabia.

No amount of playing "you're another" will make that go away.
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by WildCat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:22 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:53 pm
So Iran is testing ballistic missiles. Testing. Meanwhile American ballistic missiles are being used in an actual war in Yemen. But they're the ones destabilizing the Middle East and defying international norms.
The USA isn't run by religious fanatics who vow to destroy other countries as a religious duty.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Grammatron » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:07 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:53 pm
So Iran is testing ballistic missiles. Testing. Meanwhile American ballistic missiles are being used in an actual war in Yemen. But they're the ones destabilizing the Middle East and defying international norms.
Iran is supporting the Houthis in Yemen which is the only reason that conflicts still exists.

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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:23 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:14 am
Iran will nuke Israel as soon as they can, and follow it up with an ultimatum to Saudi Arabia.

No amount of playing "you're another" will make that go away.
Given that Israel has its own nuclear weapons, that seems unlikely for the same reason that the US and Russia didn't nuke each other, or India and Pakistan. It would be suicide for Iran. But the Iran deal was meant to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons, while allowing the peaceful development of nuclear power, a right retained by all countries that sign the non-proliferation treaty. I don't want Iran to develop nuclear weapons either. What do we do, attack them first and claim self-defense because maybe in the future they might develop nuclear weapons? :notsure:
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Re: Iran Nuke Deal

Post by WildCat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:10 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:23 am
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:14 am
Iran will nuke Israel as soon as they can, and follow it up with an ultimatum to Saudi Arabia.

No amount of playing "you're another" will make that go away.
Given that Israel has its own nuclear weapons, that seems unlikely for the same reason that the US and Russia didn't nuke each other, or India and Pakistan. It would be suicide for Iran. But the Iran deal was meant to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons, while allowing the peaceful development of nuclear power, a right retained by all countries that sign the non-proliferation treaty. I don't want Iran to develop nuclear weapons either. What do we do, attack them first and claim self-defense because maybe in the future they might develop nuclear weapons? :notsure:
The USA and Russia aren't fanatical followers of an apocalyptic death cult.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj