Allawi to Congress:

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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rikzilla
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Allawi to Congress:

Post by rikzilla » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:42 pm

"Like Americans, we Iraqis want to enjoy freedom!"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6077104/

He didn't equivocate about the definition of "FREEDOM". The people of Iraq know what freedom is, simply because it's been missing for so long.

-z
Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul. ~Mark Twain

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rikzilla
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Re: Allawi to Congress:

Post by rikzilla » Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:14 pm

rikzilla wrote:
"Like Americans, we Iraqis want to enjoy freedom!"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6077104/

He didn't equivocate about the definition of "FREEDOM". The people of Iraq know what freedom is, simply because it's been missing for so long.

-z
bump


You guys don't have ANYTHING to say??? All you liberals who either have said that Iraqi culture is too backward to adapt to freedom,...or that Iraqis were too personally barbaric to appreciate freedom,...or that Iraqi's like the "ordnung" of a dictator more than freedom.....and yes...even those who argued that there was no good definition of freedom!! :shock: :?

Well personally I think liberalism is a fine thing...nearly every freedom we hold dear...and conservatives fight to CONSERVE...has come from actual liberals. But those who couch their racism against Arabs in liberal terms are not liberals....they're bigots. The only Arabs you guys seem to want to give a break to are the tiny minority of violent terrorists. That's not liberalism!

-z
Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul. ~Mark Twain

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rikzilla
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Post by rikzilla » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:01 pm

Still nothing huh?

Sundog,...Nigel???

Nothing to say? I thought you'd be right here defending your position that the Iraqi people don't want to be free.

What a couple of biased morons you guys are!! You cover your vile racism with nice sounding liberal words while you'd condemn 99% of the Iraqi populace to tyranny forever.

What creeps! How can you even look in a mirror? You guys make Dan Rather look like George Washington.

:x
-z
Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul. ~Mark Twain

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Bruce
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Post by Bruce » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:58 pm

rikzilla wrote:Still nothing huh?
What creeps! How can you even look in a mirror? You guys make Dan Rather look like George Washington.
Easy, rik, easy. They're probably at a protest rally or something. :wink:
Such potential!

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kerberos
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Post by kerberos » Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:59 pm

rikzilla wrote:Still nothing huh?
Ehh.. Just what are you trying to say in you opening post? Alawi held a speech and said Iriqis want freedom. What exactly is the point?
"You have to go out of your way to kill a pessimist, an optimist will kill himself for you." - Nyarlathotep

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Post by rikzilla » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:27 pm

kerberos wrote:
rikzilla wrote:Still nothing huh?
Ehh.. Just what are you trying to say in you opening post? Alawi held a speech and said Iriqis want freedom. What exactly is the point?
See the liberals attempt to spin the word "FREEDOM" into meaninglessness in this thread @ TOP:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... genumber=4
Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul. ~Mark Twain

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Post by bjornart » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:37 pm

"Freedom" is meaningless. And Allawi is no more the voice of every Iraqi than Bush is the voice of every American.

This piece is a bit biased I admit, but I don't doubt that the sentiments described are fairly common:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3757923.stm
Iyad Allawi is one of a US-backed clique of secular Iraqi opposition figures who lived in exile until the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime in April 2003.

But he has the advantage as prime minister - to paraphrase one commentator - of being equally mistrusted by everyone in Iraq's multifarious population.

Mr Allawi has received the endorsement of some Washington departments
Religious leaders think he is too secular, the US-led coalition now sees him as a critic, for the anti-Saddam opposition he is an ex-Baathist, while ordinary Iraqis say he is a CIA man.

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rikzilla
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Post by rikzilla » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:39 pm

bjornart wrote:"Freedom" is meaningless. And Allawi is no more the voice of every Iraqi than Bush is the voice of every American.
I never said he was the voice of every Iraqi. Can you please respond with something other than a strawman fallacy??

-z
Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul. ~Mark Twain

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Post by specious_reasons » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:45 pm

rikzilla wrote:
kerberos wrote:
rikzilla wrote:Still nothing huh?
Ehh.. Just what are you trying to say in you opening post? Alawi held a speech and said Iriqis want freedom. What exactly is the point?
See the liberals attempt to spin the word "FREEDOM" into meaninglessness in this thread @ TOP:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... genumber=4
I see, so, this thread had the double-edged sword of being on a subject for which I don't have a strong opinion and being fallout from a source I no longer peruse. Now I understand why I couldn't figure out what the point of the opening post was. Thank you for clarifying.
ta-
DAVE!!!

bjornart
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Post by bjornart » Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:35 am

rikzilla wrote:
bjornart wrote:"Freedom" is meaningless. And Allawi is no more the voice of every Iraqi than Bush is the voice of every American.
I never said he was the voice of every Iraqi. Can you please respond with something other than a strawman fallacy??

-z
I considered it, but you didn't really present a coherent idea to argue against. Besides, your OP seemed to indicate that Allawi's statement was relevant as evidence for "The people of Iraq" knowing "what freedom is, simply because it's been missing for so long." My response assumed that's how you meant it, hence, no strawman.

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Mr Manifesto
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Re: Allawi to Congress:

Post by Mr Manifesto » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:59 pm

rikzilla wrote:
"Like Americans, we Iraqis want to enjoy freedom!"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6077104/

He didn't equivocate about the definition of "FREEDOM". The people of Iraq know what freedom is, simply because it's been missing for so long.

-z
So, if I understand your subsequent posts correctly, you seem to be saying that, by appointing Allawi governor of Iraq, the Iraqis have been given 'freedom', the defintion of which is self-evident by Allawi's speech.

Well, first you need to define freedom, a task which proved to be too much for you at TOP (hence your little outburst in this thread, you refuse-to-grow-upper, you ;) ). If you think Allawi has somehow defined freedom in his speech, I advise you to look up argumentum ad verecundiam.
"There are many, many good people who have gone to prison. Look at Nelson Mandela."
-- Martha Stewart

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kerberos
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Post by kerberos » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:19 pm

rikzilla wrote:
kerberos wrote:
rikzilla wrote:Still nothing huh?
Ehh.. Just what are you trying to say in you opening post? Alawi held a speech and said Iriqis want freedom. What exactly is the point?
See the liberals attempt to spin the word "FREEDOM" into meaninglessness in this thread @ TOP:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... genumber=4
Ahh, another linguistic discussion, what a joy :roll: Have fun with that. :woowoo:
"You have to go out of your way to kill a pessimist, an optimist will kill himself for you." - Nyarlathotep

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Post by gnome » Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:28 pm

I just didn't respond because there didn't seem much to say. The Iraqi Prime Minister is optimistic and believes Iraqis want freedom.

Great. I've no problem with that. What's there to discuss?