When People Finally See a Drug Raid

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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corplinx
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When People Finally See a Drug Raid

Post by corplinx » Wed May 12, 2010 10:01 pm

http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/11/a ... goes-viral

They don't like what they see. On COPS, they don't show the innocent.

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Luke T.
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Post by Luke T. » Wed May 12, 2010 10:38 pm

Pretty fucked up behavior on the part of the police.
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

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Post by Luke T. » Wed May 12, 2010 10:40 pm

More dumbass cops:
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

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ck
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Post by ck » Wed May 12, 2010 10:43 pm

Juarez Mexico and other border cities are as violent and dangerous as they've ever been, and it's pretty much all drug-related violence. The violence down there has escalated ever since the whole "war on drugs" thing kicked off and has only gotten worse with passing years.

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Post by corplinx » Wed May 12, 2010 10:50 pm

In this case, we see militarized police being used to deal with non-violent offenders though.

This isn't Juarez. It is your neighbors house.

ck
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Post by ck » Wed May 12, 2010 11:07 pm

Yep, and I have seen the video previous to today and agree it was pretty fucked up. For all of these drug raids and ones that go wrong, it isn't really making a dent in illicit drug trade. It is for nothing.

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Post by Bruce » Thu May 13, 2010 2:00 am

I used to live in Columbia, Missouri.

The crimes committed by the Columbia city police have grown steadily worse over the last ten years. Seems their infamy continues to grow. My former neighbor went after them with the ACLU after they roughed up her and her son in the Columbia mall.

They handle the city and it's citizens as if it were downtown Compton. This incident doesn't surprise me much, unfortunately. :(

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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 1:01 pm

As awful as that video is, raids like that occur every day throughout the US. The ACLU and lawyers who have been paying attention have been arguing for a couple of decades that the War on Drugs is actually in effect a war on US residents and their civil liberties, especially their protections under the Fourth Amendment. It is not hyperbolic to make such a claim.

The DEA and the FBI regularly work with local SWAT teams from local police forces to conduct drug raids in persons' homes like depicted above. I know of a local case recently where the FBI asked a local SWAT team to execute a federal search warrant for drugs at a particular house and was with them when they used a battering ram to knock down the front door. The federal agent on the ground confirmed for the SWAT team before they broke down the door, using his Google map, that the SWAT team had the correct house. They broke in, used their proper tactics for clearing a house, and stumbled upon the occupant whom they awoke from his sleep. He thought he was being burglarized and had his gun in his hand for self defense -- in his own house, in his own bedroom even -- so they open fired, shooting him four times.

They hit him twice in the balls. He survived, but he has no balls now, and it was the wrong house and the wrong guy.

Yeah, think of the children. Keep drugs away from kids.

Collectively, we're fucking idiots to have that as the rhetoric driving our national drug policy.

CH
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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 1:07 pm

ck wrote:Juarez Mexico and other border cities are as violent and dangerous as they've ever been, and it's pretty much all drug-related violence. The violence down there has escalated ever since the whole "war on drugs" thing kicked off and has only gotten worse with passing years.
Juarez, with 20,000 murders annually, is now the murder capital of the world. Americans don't seem to understand that because it's our neighbor to the south, Mexico's problems are our problems. Until Mexico and the US legalize marijuana and other illicit drugs, the violence from persons in the unlawful drug trade will continue. There's so much money in it, there is no end to the persons willing to kill to protect those interests.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
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"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 1:11 pm

ck wrote:Yep, and I have seen the video previous to today and agree it was pretty fucked up. For all of these drug raids and ones that go wrong, it isn't really making a dent in illicit drug trade. It is for nothing.
It is for naught is right. Actually, it has done tremendous harm to our society. The War on Drugs has always been far more damaging to our culture and society than drug abuse and/or addiction in the aggregate ever has. Individual tragic cases notwithstanding, I'm speaking of the aggregate toll on our society.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Post by Vorticity » Thu May 13, 2010 3:11 pm

They shot both dogs first thing.

Does anybody know if it is standard police procedure to simply shoot all dogs whenever executing a search warrant?

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Re: When People Finally See a Drug Raid

Post by manny » Thu May 13, 2010 3:19 pm

corplinx wrote:http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/11/a ... goes-viral

They don't like what they see. On COPS, they don't show the innocent.
They don't like it but they don't really do anything about it. 25 years ago today the radical terrorist group MOVE was evicted from its house in West Philly with extreme prejudice. Now, they deserved to die, except for the children. But the other 60 homeowners didn't deserve to have their houses torched. The police lost sight of whom they were supposed to be protecting MOVE from.

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Post by Mentat » Thu May 13, 2010 3:26 pm

Cool Hand wrote:
ck wrote:Yep, and I have seen the video previous to today and agree it was pretty fucked up. For all of these drug raids and ones that go wrong, it isn't really making a dent in illicit drug trade. It is for nothing.
It is for naught is right. Actually, it has done tremendous harm to our society. The War on Drugs has always been far more damaging to our culture and society than drug abuse and/or addiction in the aggregate ever has. Individual tragic cases notwithstanding, I'm speaking of the aggregate toll on our society.

CH
It's a modern witch hunt.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 5:37 pm

Vorticity wrote:They shot both dogs first thing.

Does anybody know if it is standard police procedure to simply shoot all dogs whenever executing a search warrant?
I don't know whether it's SOP for all local forces, but I would say it's very common at the least. When executing high risk warrants, foremost in the officers' minds is the mantra of officer safety. In other words, protect themselves and their teammates above all else. It truly is a military mindset.

I think the first reaction many, if not most SWAT officers have when encountering dogs in homes is that the dog(s) pose a threat to their safety. After all, dogs are very territorial and very protective of it, and many can be extremely aggressive towards anyone or anything the dog perceives to be a threat or intruder in their territory. The default safe thing for the officers to do is to neutralize (euphemism for shoot to death) any dogs they see or hear. I'm not defending the practice or condoning it, but trying to explain it from their perspective, and I do have some exposure to their perspective from years of interacting with them.

It's one of many, many arguments against the War on Drugs and why the Fourth Amendment exists -- to protect you from unreasonable intrusions by the government and its agents like the police. I'm just not convinced that drug use, drug abuse, drug addiction, or even drug dealing is enough of a threat to society to justify the forceful, military style invasion of citizens' homes daily throughout the US. Weighing the two interests, to me the right to be let alone, especially at home, from intrusion by the government far outweighs the government's interest in fighting drug abuse and addiction, to the extent that it has any legitimate interest in drug use by consenting adults at all.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Re: When People Finally See a Drug Raid

Post by Luke T. » Thu May 13, 2010 5:41 pm

manny wrote:
corplinx wrote:http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/11/a ... goes-viral

They don't like what they see. On COPS, they don't show the innocent.
They don't like it but they don't really do anything about it. 25 years ago today the radical terrorist group MOVE was evicted from its house in West Philly with extreme prejudice. Now, they deserved to die, except for the children. But the other 60 homeowners didn't deserve to have their houses torched. The police lost sight of whom they were supposed to be protecting MOVE from.
I was living in Philly when that happened.
[size=75]"it seems you don't believe how your enviroment of smells affects for a young ones.how many young girl are are in just involved in porn industry just because of lack of natural smells" - pillory (7/13/02)[/size]

I [size=167]♣[/size]69dodge

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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 5:50 pm

Mentat wrote:
Cool Hand wrote:
ck wrote:Yep, and I have seen the video previous to today and agree it was pretty fucked up. For all of these drug raids and ones that go wrong, it isn't really making a dent in illicit drug trade. It is for nothing.
It is for naught is right. Actually, it has done tremendous harm to our society. The War on Drugs has always been far more damaging to our culture and society than drug abuse and/or addiction in the aggregate ever has. Individual tragic cases notwithstanding, I'm speaking of the aggregate toll on our society.

CH
It's a modern witch hunt.
In a way, but I would say its scope is much broader than of the European or Salem witch hunts. It's an assault on individual liberties and a grotesque abuse and expansion of the police powers of government at all levels. It keeps increasing, and to the police and to citizens who support the War on Drugs, there is never enough law enforcement against drug possession or distribution or manufacturing. You could enlist every citizen and put them into law enforcement positions and it still wouldn't be enough for them.

It's pointless and accomplishes nothing positive. It's a tremendous drag on our society and economy and law enforcement, judicial, and corrections resources that far outweighs the deleterious effects of drug abuse. Government and law enforcement simply do not distinguish between drug use and drug abuse. To them, drug use = abuse. Using their philosophical approach, smoking a J at home while watching The Three Stooges is as wrong as shooting up heroin in an alley while your 8-year-old kid is home alone without supper. I don't know anyone who would make that claim as a practical matter, but their stance lends itself to that equivocation.

It's sad and even tragic in cases when persons abuse drugs and let them ruin their lives or those around them. Nevertheless, that's going to be true whether we keep illicit drugs illegal or not. Some persons will use them regardless of their legal status. Some persons will abuse them regardless of their legal status. The only difference is the collateral consequences to individuals caught up in the legal system and to society at large by keeping prohibition in effect. Remove prohibition, and all the ancillary effects fall away, including all that drug violence and murder. You don't see 20,000 persons a year being murdered in Juarez over cigarettes or beer.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Post by Geni » Thu May 13, 2010 5:56 pm

Cool Hand wrote:As awful as that video is, raids like that occur every day throughout the US. The ACLU and lawyers who have been paying attention have been arguing for a couple of decades that the War on Drugs is actually in effect a war on US residents and their civil liberties, especially their protections under the Fourth Amendment. It is not hyperbolic to make such a claim.
Wouldn't the issue that now a lot of forces have SWAT teams there is pressure to use them be a factor?

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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 6:12 pm

Geni wrote:
Cool Hand wrote:As awful as that video is, raids like that occur every day throughout the US. The ACLU and lawyers who have been paying attention have been arguing for a couple of decades that the War on Drugs is actually in effect a war on US residents and their civil liberties, especially their protections under the Fourth Amendment. It is not hyperbolic to make such a claim.
Wouldn't the issue that now a lot of forces have SWAT teams there is pressure to use them be a factor?
Maybe in some cases, but not necessarily in my opinion. I suppose it depends on the size of the police force, but for instance in my city the SWAT team is made of regular police officers, but SWAT is an additional duty for those on it (and it is highly competitive and rigorous, so not just any officer can be on a SWAT team) and they train together regularly. They go on calls and raids from time to time as needed. They are not a standing SWAT team sitting around waiting for a call, like municipal firefighters usually are. When not engaged in a SWAT training or mission, each member goes about his other police duties.

In larger cities, they may indeed have standing SWAT teams whose members' sole duty is to train for and execute SWAT missions. Of course SWAT missions encompass more than just drug raids by executing search and arrest warrants regarding drugs and drug dealers. It just happens to be probably the most common type of SWAT mission. That's how prevalent and all-encompassing the War on Drugs is.

As far as I know, the UK has a very similar practice, using SWAT teams and the same type of raids. I know I've seen them in television documentaries anyway. Do you think the existence of SWAT teams in and of itself encourages drug raids in the UK?

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Post by Geni » Thu May 13, 2010 7:30 pm

Cool Hand wrote: As far as I know, the UK has a very similar practice, using SWAT teams and the same type of raids. I know I've seen them in television documentaries anyway. Do you think the existence of SWAT teams in and of itself encourages drug raids in the UK?

CH
No idea. This week's private eye suggests we are starting to have issues with our asset seizure laws though.

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Post by Cool Hand » Thu May 13, 2010 7:39 pm

Geni wrote:
Cool Hand wrote: As far as I know, the UK has a very similar practice, using SWAT teams and the same type of raids. I know I've seen them in television documentaries anyway. Do you think the existence of SWAT teams in and of itself encourages drug raids in the UK?

CH
No idea. This week's private eye suggests we are starting to have issues with our asset seizure laws though.
Don't get me started on asset seizure laws. They are one of the most misguided law enforcement tools legislatures have ever invented. They are effectively licenses for the police to steal houses, cars, boats, cash, and all kinds of nice stuff from citizens with or without ever charging them with a crime and with almost no due process to prevent the forfeiture.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

"Time" -- Pink Floyd