Don't talk to the cops

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Don't talk to the cops

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:22 pm





Edited to adjust video formatting
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:57 pm

Summary?
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by corplinx » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:07 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Summary?
Watch the first part instead. The Summary is, Don't Talk to the Cops.

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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by ed » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:19 pm

corplinx wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:Summary?
Watch the first part instead. The Summary is, Don't Talk to the Cops.
27 min to find out wtf is going on?

Rather than a summary, how about a precis?
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:24 pm

Precis: Don't talk to the cops.

He puts on a good show to explain exactly why.

Give it five minutes to see if you like it.
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Rob Lister » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:40 pm

ed wrote:
corplinx wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:Summary?
Watch the first part instead. The Summary is, Don't Talk to the Cops.
27 min to find out wtf is going on?

Rather than a summary, how about a precis?
Well worth the full watch: both of them.

Summary:

Cop: What time is it?
You: This sounds like a legal matter. I'm going to let my attorney handle it.

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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Cool Hand » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:36 pm

It's the first thing any competent criminal defense attorney will advise you if you are under investigation for a criminal offense. Usually, however, by the time someone calls an attorney they have already spoken to the cops and/or given a written "statement." It's always a "statement" at the police station, but it's amazing how it's always a "confession" in court.

The biggest practical problem is that anyone on the street who is approached by the police has a natural tendency to want to talk their way out of it. You know, if I can just tell my side of the story, and I'll just tell the truth, everything will be OK.

Nope. The cops are never trying to "help" you in a criminal investigation. The are never there to "help" you after an offense has been committed. Their job at that point is to gather evidence leading to an arrest and conviction. If they want to "talk" to you, you have absolutely nothing to gain from talking to them and everything to lose. Once you understand that -- and it amazes me how hard it is to convince most clients that that is truly the case -- it's a no brainer. Furthermore, some people are shocked -- shocked, I tell you -- that cops can and do routinely lie to persons they question in order to trick them into talking to them and to say what they want to hear. Yes, Virginia, cops can and do lie.

Don't talk to the cops, and for God's sake don't write or sign any statement. You can never go wrong by exercising your Sixth Amendment right to counsel by telling them that you will not answer any questions without your lawyer being present. It works, and it is helpful to the guilty and not guilty alike.

CH
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:57 pm

I recommend watching both videos.

A more detailed summary:

In Part 1, a law professor explains why nobody should talk to the cops. He gives several real examples, and outlines 7 or 8 compelling reasons why you should not talk to the cops. Basically, various aspects of human nature: faulty memory, unknown evidence, etc. The fundamental reason is what Cool Hand has explained: the police are gathering evidence. Anything you say is evidence. The professor points out that even if you are telling the gold-plated truth and you are completely innocent, even that can be used against you and probably will be used against you. Nothing you say to the cops will be used to help you.

In Part 2, a former police officer who has served in the Navy and who has conducted thousands of "interviews" with suspects says that everything the professor told you is true, with the exception that he, the police officer, does not try to send innocent people to jail. Often he has let innocent people go. He has never let a guilty person go. The officer explains several tricks he has used. He explains that people are basically honest and that it doesn't take a whole lot to get them to talk, and gives some examples from his professional experience. He also explains that people are stupid and will fall for simple tricks, among them outright lying. The police are in fact allowed to lie during interviews. He calls them interviews, not interrogations, because the word interrogation carries with it a lot of negative meaning. He also suggested that people be very grateful that they're living in the USA, because in other countries, interrogations begin with violence, that the police there can do whatever they want, however they want. Be grateful for your rights, and be aware of your rights, and don't talk to the cops.

One amusing portion:

Police officer: "How many here have driven faster than 55 mph on the highway?"

Some of the audience raise their hands.

Professor: "WHAT DID I JUST TELL YOU??"
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by EvilYeti » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:00 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Summary?
If you have just committed a crime, don't talk to the cops!

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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by gnome » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:49 pm

A question comes to mind:

I can understand the advantage to the individual person, and the risk avoided...

But if everyone refused to give the police any information without an attorney present, could they function?
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:10 pm

gnome wrote:But if everyone refused to give the police any information without an attorney present, could they function?
Tough shit coppers.

Lesson 2: Don't snitch. :P
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Bruce » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:29 pm

gnome wrote: But if everyone refused to give the police any information without an attorney present, could they function?
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Cool Hand » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:32 pm

gnome wrote:A question comes to mind:

I can understand the advantage to the individual person, and the risk avoided...

But if everyone refused to give the police any information without an attorney present, could they function?
It's a good question.

It's interesting that in many neighborhoods, typically those infested with violent crime and drug dealers, streetwise persons have learned not to talk to the cops. They have learned that no good comes of it, even if they are mere bystanders.

Also, one thing I have observed, particularly with respect to "domestic" situations, is the person who calls 911 often ends up going to jail, perhaps more than half the time. After that happens enough in a neighborhood, certain persons simply stop calling the police for help.

I blame the police. It is their responsibility and duty to foster and earn the trust of the persons in the neighborhoods in which they patrol. If the persons living there do not trust the police, then they will not cooperate with them. It's incumbent on the police not to lie and trick persons they interview, on the street or at the station. If they would disavow and discontinue using such deplorable tactics, perhaps they could regain the trust of the persons whose neighborhoods they patrol. It won't happen on a large scale, but I understand there are community policing initiatives in certain cities and precincts. They are focused on building healthy, friendly relations with the members of the community.

Doing away with the War on Drugs would go a long way towards ending the violence and distrust of the police in many of these communities. If we would accept drug abuse (use is not necessarily equal to abuse, although legally that's how it's treated by cops and courts, and especially prosecutors) and addiction (which is not equivalent to use or abuse) as medical issues, and not continue the charade of treating those problems in the criminal justice system, everyone would benefit. It's obscene how many law enforcement, prosecutorial, judicial, probation, and correctional resources are wasted on fighting the unwinnable War on Drugs.

Anyway, back to your question. Yes, but they would have to rely on other kinds of evidence than eyewitness testimony. This would not necessarily be a bad thing overall, as eyewitness testimony is on balance the most unreliable evidence that gets admitted into court on a regular basis. Also, remember the Fifth Amendment right not to be compelled to give evidence against yourself is meant as a check on the government and the police. The police don't have constitutional rights, as the Bill of Rights is focused on protecting individuals from abuses committed against them by police and other agents of government.

CH
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And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:00 pm

Skeeve linked to this earlier today, so I went and fixed the embedded video.

And watch again soon. 8)
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Re: Don't talk to the cops

Post by Witness » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:23 am

Image