## The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
corplinx
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### The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

So I'd heard it become hard to buy ammo at Wal-mart and other big box stores in certain calibers. I'd expected irrational people to buy more what with a Democrat president.

Then we heard Sarah Palin say that the government was buying up ammo to keep it away from people. This is apparently something that some hicks actually believe.

Cue me talking to someone about a month ago... Hicks hoarding ammo have created a scarcity issue that they are blaming the government for.

In addition, some hicks who realize its bullshit are buying the new ammo after Wal-mart puts it on the shelves in order to sell on gun forums to the irrational hicks (who they are happy to keep whispering about the feds are buying it all to).

So hicks are being exploited by other hicks with a line of woo and fear into buying into a self-perpetuating cycle.

The fun part is.... even if the anti-christ commie kenyan socialist grabs their guns..... ammo would still be legal.

ed
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

As always, the story is a bit more nuanced.
The Denver Post, on February 15th, ran an Associated Press article entitled Homeland Security aims to buy 1.6b rounds of ammo, so far to little notice. It confirmed that the Department of Homeland Security has issued an open purchase order for 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition. As reported elsewhere, some of this purchase order is for hollow-point rounds, forbidden by international law for use in war, along with a frightening amount specialized for snipers. Also reported elsewhere, at the height of the Iraq War the Army was expending less than 6 million rounds a month. Therefore 1.6 billion rounds would be enough to sustain a hot war for 20+ years. In America.

Add to this perplexing outré purchase of ammo, DHS now is showing off its acquisition of heavily armored personnel carriers, repatriated from the Iraqi and Afghani theaters of operation. As observed by “paramilblogger” Ken Jorgustin last September:

NRA Winning the Influence Battle Over Gun Control
Bruce Rogers
Forbes Staff

[T]he Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer – Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.”

These MRAP’s ARE BEING SEEN ON U.S. STREETS all across America by verified observers with photos, videos, and descriptions.”

Regardless of the exact number of MRAP’s being delivered to DHS (and evidently some to POLICE via DHS, as has been observed), why would they need such over-the-top vehicles on U.S. streets to withstand IEDs, mine blasts, and 50 caliber hits to bullet-proof glass? In a war zone… yes, definitely. Let’s protect our men and women. On the streets of America… ?”

“They all have gun ports… Gun Ports? In the theater of war, yes. On the streets of America…?

Seriously, why would DHS need such a vehicle on our streets?”

Why indeed? It is utterly inconceivable that Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is planning a coup d’etat against President Obama, and the Congress, to install herself as Supreme Ruler of the United States of America. There, however, are real signs that the Department bureaucrats are running amok. About 20 years ago this columnist worked, for two years, in the U.S. Department of Energy’s general counsel’s office in its procurement and finance division. And is wise to the ways. The answer to “why would DHS need such a vehicle?” almost certainly is this: it’s a cool toy and these (reportedly) million dollar toys are being recycled, without much of a impact on the DHS budget. So… why not?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/ ... versation/

Ammunition has been "scarcer" over the past few years. Prices have escalated for reasons beyond the demands of the armed forces and escalating prices of raw materials (you may recall my Patriots Fund that invested in some of the raw materials). Anyhoo, prices are up, I hear that 9mm is hard to get in fla.

Not really surprising stuff and some people are making money. I suspect that the value of my ammunition is probably up 900% or so. But how can you put a price tag on freedom, etc. blather, sexual innuendo.
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corplinx
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

9mm winchester whitebox (not even hollow point) has been harder to get since Obama got elected. The ammo panic buying and hoarding isn't new.

ed
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

corplinx wrote:9mm winchester whitebox (not even hollow point) has been harder to get since Obama got elected. The ammo panic buying and hoarding isn't new.
Right. I suspect that any story on ammo will trigger hoarding etc.
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gnome
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

I suspect at least some of the time that's the point.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

ed
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I suspect that no single person has done more for the firearms industry than Barack Obama. The AR style carbine/rifle was sort of a relatively expensive specialty arm before him. Now you can't get one or if you can you are spending ~$1000 a copy. Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning! WildCat Posts: 13842 Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago Has thanked: 32 times Been thanked: 330 times ### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo The hardest to find is .22 long rifle. Took me about 6-7 tries before I fnally found enough to go shooting with the other day. You have to go to Cabela's right when they open, and there's a line. If you're lucky they'll have a few boxes for sale (Cabela's limits you to 100 rounds of .22LR per day). Last Thursday I couldn't believe it, they actually had a whole shelf filled with CCI mini-mags. So I bought a box, my friend bought a box, and we were able to shoot to our heart's content. A lot of smaller gun shops are jacking up the price instead of rationing it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend$20 for .22 rimfire.

Not as hard to get .44 magnum for my old Ruger carbine, but still not easy. At least shotgun ammo is plentiful, shot a bunch of clays Thursday.
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you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

ed
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

hmmm ... heard that .22 were out in central fla.

For some time, whenever I went into a sporting goods or gun shop I'd buy 100 rounds of something. Just to support them a bit I guess. Same way I buy a hunting license even though I don't hunt.

I've been doing that for some time.
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Evolver
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ed wrote:I suspect that no single person has done more for the firearms industry than Barack Obama. The AR style carbine/rifle was sort of a relatively expensive specialty arm before him. Now you can't get one or if you can you are spending ~$1000 a copy. It's more the NRA and their rants and raves making you hillbillies think Obama is taking your guns, and precious bodily fluids. 2016 & 2018 NFL "Sorry To Make You Cry" Challenge Champion "Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there would be no religious people." - Dr. Gregory House WildCat Posts: 13842 Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago Has thanked: 32 times Been thanked: 330 times ### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo Evolver wrote: ed wrote:I suspect that no single person has done more for the firearms industry than Barack Obama. The AR style carbine/rifle was sort of a relatively expensive specialty arm before him. Now you can't get one or if you can you are spending ~$1000 a copy.
It's more the NRA and their rants and raves making you hillbillies think Obama is taking your guns, and precious bodily fluids.
When idiots like Diane Feinstein actually wrote legislation to take your guns it trumps whatever the NRA said (or didn't say, you provided no evidence). And some pols were talking about taxing ammo, that sure doesn't help.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

Evolver
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WildCat wrote:
Evolver wrote:
ed wrote:I suspect that no single person has done more for the firearms industry than Barack Obama. The AR style carbine/rifle was sort of a relatively expensive specialty arm before him. Now you can't get one or if you can you are spending ~$1000 a copy. It's more the NRA and their rants and raves making you hillbillies think Obama is taking your guns, and precious bodily fluids. When idiots like Diane Feinstein actually wrote legislation to take your guns it trumps whatever the NRA said (or didn't say, you provided no evidence). And some pols were talking about taxing ammo, that sure doesn't help. So Diane Feinstein=Barack Obama? And asking for a gun owners database and proper licensing, or even restricting certain types of weapons is "taking your guns"? I guess the next thing you know, Republicans will marry their dogs (everything comes back to that). 2016 & 2018 NFL "Sorry To Make You Cry" Challenge Champion "Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there would be no religious people." - Dr. Gregory House ed Posts: 33035 Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp Has thanked: 439 times Been thanked: 752 times ### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo Evolver wrote: WildCat wrote: Evolver wrote: ed wrote:I suspect that no single person has done more for the firearms industry than Barack Obama. The AR style carbine/rifle was sort of a relatively expensive specialty arm before him. Now you can't get one or if you can you are spending ~$1000 a copy.
It's more the NRA and their rants and raves making you hillbillies think Obama is taking your guns, and precious bodily fluids.
When idiots like Diane Feinstein actually wrote legislation to take your guns it trumps whatever the NRA said (or didn't say, you provided no evidence). And some pols were talking about taxing ammo, that sure doesn't help.
So Diane Feinstein=Barack Obama? And asking for a gun owners database and proper licensing, or even restricting certain types of weapons is "taking your guns"? I guess the next thing you know, Republicans will marry their dogs (everything comes back to that).
It is gradualism. Sorta like the abortion question: the people most interested will never compromise on the basic concept that only officials of the government should be armed. You allow for "reasonable" regulations and in a year they come back for more.

There is a gun owner database: every firearm sale of a pistol is reported to the feds. Any purchase can be reconstructed. Many types of firearms are restricted.

Many gun owners view registration as a step toward confiscation, I am one of those. It happened in NYC despite many many protestations to the contrary while the legislation was pending.

And, yes, DF=BO. I don't believe for a second that she didn't get his approval before that abortion was put forward. He's the party leader, no?
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hammegk
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

Evolver wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Evolver wrote:
ed wrote:I suspect that no single person has done more for the firearms industry than Barack Obama. The AR style carbine/rifle was sort of a relatively expensive specialty arm before him. Now you can't get one or if you can you are spending ~\$1000 a copy.
It's more the NRA and their rants and raves making you hillbillies think Obama is taking your guns, and precious bodily fluids.
When idiots like Diane Feinstein actually wrote legislation to take your guns it trumps whatever the NRA said (or didn't say, you provided no evidence). And some pols were talking about taxing ammo, that sure doesn't help.
So Diane Feinstein=Barack Obama? And asking for a gun owners database and proper licensing, or even restricting certain types of weapons is "taking your guns"? I guess the next thing you know, Republicans will marry their dogs (everything comes back to that).
I think it goes back to Obama in PA, and a comment on hicks, bibles, and guns. I'm also sure Obama Lovers will disagree that comment has anything to do with it.

WildCat
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

Evolver wrote:So Diane Feinstein=Barack Obama? And asking for a gun owners database and proper licensing, or even restricting certain types of weapons is "taking your guns"? I guess the next thing you know, Republicans will marry their dogs (everything comes back to that).
I have no doubt Obama would have signed the Feinstein legislation if it had passed.

And how would you feel about requiring a license to have an abortion?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

gnome
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

The problem with pointing out gradualism is that it freezes the status quo... there are groups willing to take any change too far--I'm going to advocate what I believe, and speak up when it goes too far. I'm not going to suggest we do nothing just because someone might take it too far later. That can happen in either direction.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

corplinx
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

Ammo taxes won't increase prices worse than hoarding though. They have these self-fulfilling prophecies of ammo scarcity.

It's a mass-stupidity problem.

ed
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

corplinx wrote:Ammo taxes won't increase prices worse than hoarding though. They have these self-fulfilling prophecies of ammo scarcity.

It's a mass-stupidity problem.
Well, there are taxes specific to ammo already. The problem is giving politicians a precedent beyond what is there already.
I am not sure what would happen to prices though.
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ed
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

gnome wrote:The problem with pointing out gradualism is that it freezes the status quo... there are groups willing to take any change too far--I'm going to advocate what I believe, and speak up when it goes too far. I'm not going to suggest we do nothing just because someone might take it too far later. That can happen in either direction.
I am not sure that the status quo is that bad. And the groups that you speak about are zealots who have been exposd to the one truth. Which zealots? All of them. Once they perceive movement in their particular direction they are galvanized and want more.

My rules about new laws are simple

-a law must specifically address a real problem
-the law must be enforceable
-there must be a sunset provision in case things don't work out the way it was hoped

Magazine capacity limits are bullshit. Identifying characteristics like bayonet lugs, threaded barrels, muzzle break, pistol grips or foregrips are bullshit and are purely aesthetic considerations. Creating hurdles to obtaining a license or firearm that don't address a specific issue are nothing more than harassment For example in CA if you already have a handgun license you still are subject to a waiting period before you can take delivery of a new one. Huh?

I think that there are any number of laws that might be good but I wouldn't get behind any of them without a quid pro quo.
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gnome
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

I could go with your rules.

I just can't go for steeling against every slippery slope. If the status quo is better than proposal A, argue for that, not against proposal B.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

ed
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### Re: The Hicks are Hoarding Ammo

gnome wrote:I could go with your rules.

I just can't go for steeling against every slippery slope. If the status quo is better than proposal A, argue for that, not against proposal B.
I think that for topics that are loaded (ha!) there onus is on those proposing changes to explain why. When they lead with "for the children" my spidey senses start tingling big time and I check my wallet. Sadly in certain areas there is a long history of deception and slippery slopes so I really don't think that knee jerking is completely out of place though I get your point.
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