Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

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Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:46 am

Pot Shops in Denver Open Door to $578 Million in Sales
Toni Fox plans to open the doors of her Denver marijuana shop at 8 a.m. tomorrow to a line of customers including some who camped overnight to be the first in the U.S. to legally buy pot for recreational use.

Fox has arranged for canopy tents, heaters and a food truck to offer donuts and pastries to patrons waiting for the state-appointed hour. She expects sales at her 3D Cannabis Center, operating since 2010 as a medical-marijuana dispensary near the Denver Coliseum, to surge to at least $250,000 a month from $30,000, she said.

“We’ll have people out the door,” Fox, 42, a Salida resident, said by telephone. “It’s going to be a very festive atmosphere. We all feel like we’re walking on sunshine right now.”

Fox’s shop is among 14 in Denver that got state and local licenses in time to sell marijuana to anyone 21 or older starting Jan. 1, just over a year after Colorado and Washington voters made their states the first to legalize recreational use. Washington’s shops are expected to open later in the year.
Details:
Colorado residents with a photo identification showing they are at least 21 may buy as much as one ounce of pot in a single transaction, while those from out of state can get a quarter ounce, Postlethwait said. Customers can’t consume the product in public, including at the shops.
. . .
In August, the U.S. Justice Department said it wouldn’t challenge the legalization laws in Washington and Colorado provided the states prevent out-of-state distribution, access to minors and drugged driving, among other restrictions.
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Doctor X » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:11 pm

I read this as "Pet Shops."

Duuuuuuude.

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:58 pm

Colorado projects $578.1 million a year in combined wholesale and retail marijuana sales to yield $67 million in tax revenue
I'm betting they fall short by $40m

Place your bets.

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Bruce » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:17 pm

Today, history was made. Here's the very first person to buy legal non-medical Marry-J.

Image
Congratulations. Your photo will be in every history textbook for at leas the next 100 years.
Such potential!

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:13 am

Bruce wrote:Today, history was made. Here's the very first person to buy legal non-medical Marry-J.

Image
Congratulations. Your photo will be in every history textbook for at leas the next 100 years.
:lol:
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:20 am

He is an Iraq War veteran.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/l ... 01660.html
Sean Azzariti is an Iraq war veteran who has been an activist for the legalization of weed, saying marijuana helps alleviate his symptoms from post-traumatic stress disorder, according to multiple news outlets. His purchase was staged by activists as a ceremonial first buy for the media.
Image

...and in the law of unintended consequences department...

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24828 ... n-colorado
Standing in line outside 3D, though, Brandon Harris didn't much care about the price, the limits or the wait. He and friend Tyler Williams, both 24, said they had driven 20 hours straight from Cincinnati to be in Denver for Jan. 1 marijuana sales. Now that they're here, Harris said, they're not going back home.

"We're staying," he said. "We're going to become residents."
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:23 am

I think that was just an unfortunate "goofy face" moment and he doesn't always look like that.

His name is Sean Azzariti, a former Marine and Iraq War veteran. He says he takes it for his PTSD.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/l ... 01660.html


ETA: D'oh! Ninja'd by Pyrrho! :nutkick:
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:16 am

One potential problem: State and local taxes brought the price of high-quality legal weed up to around $400 an ounce in some places, about four times the cost on the black market.
http://www.newser.com/story/180048/firs ... ellow.html

I'm not sure taxes raised it that much but at four times the street back-alley price, the novelty of shop sales will soon dwindle.

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Cool Hand » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:47 am

Rob Lister wrote:
One potential problem: State and local taxes brought the price of high-quality legal weed up to around $400 an ounce in some places, about four times the cost on the black market.
http://www.newser.com/story/180048/firs ... ellow.html

I'm not sure taxes raised it that much but at four times the street back-alley price, the novelty of shop sales will soon dwindle.
That's precisely the problem with the prevailing view of "decriminalization" or "legalization" of marijuana. That is, those who think we should tax the hell out of it and see it as a revenue source for state and local governments. It does nothing to address the problem of ancillary crime that surrounds the illicit drug trade. It preserves the black market (and perhaps gives it a shot in the arm) and allows drug cartels to continue to profit. It's a very wrong-headed approach to a problem.

Actually, it doesn't solve any problem with marijuana at all, from a society's perspective, except to allow doofuses like the guy in the picture to buy overpriced weed over the counter. BFD. What a sham.

By the way, "legal" is very misleading, as the feds retain jurisdiction over every single marijuana transaction, and every single marijuana possession, everywhere in the US. Everywhere. At any time. Over anyone (except for a couple of dozen persons who fall under a very narrow Government program for licensing medical marijuana). The only things keeping the feds from swooping down on those sellers and buyers are promises and (weak) policies in local and regional DEA offices.

Oh, sure this Administration has promised not to pursue arrests or prosecutions of persons who keep it in state, etc. It also promised if you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it.

CH
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Evolver » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:35 pm

My guess is that a red-eyed Peyton Manning will be ordering a lot more of those nasty Papa John's pizzas.
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:00 pm

Cool Hand wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
One potential problem: State and local taxes brought the price of high-quality legal weed up to around $400 an ounce in some places, about four times the cost on the black market.
http://www.newser.com/story/180048/firs ... ellow.html

I'm not sure taxes raised it that much but at four times the street back-alley price, the novelty of shop sales will soon dwindle.
That's precisely the problem with the prevailing view of "decriminalization" or "legalization" of marijuana. That is, those who think we should tax the hell out of it and see it as a revenue source for state and local governments. It does nothing to address the problem of ancillary crime that surrounds the illicit drug trade. It preserves the black market (and perhaps gives it a shot in the arm) and allows drug cartels to continue to profit. It's a very wrong-headed approach to a problem.

Actually, it doesn't solve any problem with marijuana at all, from a society's perspective, except to allow doofuses like the guy in the picture to buy overpriced weed over the counter. BFD. What a sham.

By the way, "legal" is very misleading, as the feds retain jurisdiction over every single marijuana transaction, and every single marijuana possession, everywhere in the US. Everywhere. At any time. Over anyone (except for a couple of dozen persons who fall under a very narrow Government program for licensing medical marijuana). The only things keeping the feds from swooping down on those sellers and buyers are promises and (weak) policies in local and regional DEA offices.

Oh, sure this Administration has promised not to pursue arrests or prosecutions of persons who keep it in state, etc. It also promised if you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it.

CH
$100 per ounce on the black market for "high-quality" weed sounds rather cheap to me compared to my experience (from many moons ago). OTOH, $400 sounds pretty expensive.

I'm not ready to pronounce this a failure just yet though. Maybe the local taxes are particularly high in some areas but not others. Give market forces a little time to work. Maybe legal competition will bring the price down. And one factor in the high price is the Federal situation as you say. Maybe congress will do something to give states more local autonomy soon?

We're not going to end the war on drugs in one fell swoop. This is a baby step, but a step in the right direction. It's not an end state, but a transition state, and an important milestone. "Medical" marijuana has been legal in some places for a while, but this is the first instance of making it legal for recreational use, an important distinction. Tax levels can be changed if these ones don't work.
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by ed » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:08 pm

There are always unintended consequences. viz. pub openings in blighty.
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:30 pm

It is easy to get wrapped around the taxes as far as the stupidly exorbitant retail price is concerned.

Clearly taxes are not making that weed cost $400 an ounce.

What is the reality.

Marketing hype of opening day: huge demand.

But it got me curious as to the entry barriers for the retail shops.

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Re ... 1646187389
[ch and corps will like that link especially]

Creating monopolies right out of the gate.

Yea. That'll work.

The very first sentence reads as follows:
In order to submit a Retail Marijuana Business License application you must own a operational Medical Marijuana Business, in Good Standing.
And from there it gets really sticky.

And in all that sticky are links to other requirements that are just as sticky; such as obtaining bonding.

Not going to do this without some serious lawyering. CH could make a green mint.

I'm dropping my plans to open a mom and pop retail pot shop (that's what I'd call it, really!). It just ain't gonna happen.

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Cool Hand » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:38 pm

How about the same approach to getting rid of Prohibition? A constitutional amendment.

For example, off the top of my head:

Congress shall make no law abridging the right of any person to possess or to introduce into one's own body, by any method or means, any substance in any form, whether natural or artificial or any mixture thereof, in any amount, by said person's own volition.

Wouldn't pass and has no political viability, but it would work to end the war on drugs and all the various ancillary crime that comes with it.

CH
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Cool Hand » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:46 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Cool Hand wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
One potential problem: State and local taxes brought the price of high-quality legal weed up to around $400 an ounce in some places, about four times the cost on the black market.
http://www.newser.com/story/180048/firs ... ellow.html

I'm not sure taxes raised it that much but at four times the street back-alley price, the novelty of shop sales will soon dwindle.
That's precisely the problem with the prevailing view of "decriminalization" or "legalization" of marijuana. That is, those who think we should tax the hell out of it and see it as a revenue source for state and local governments. It does nothing to address the problem of ancillary crime that surrounds the illicit drug trade. It preserves the black market (and perhaps gives it a shot in the arm) and allows drug cartels to continue to profit. It's a very wrong-headed approach to a problem.

Actually, it doesn't solve any problem with marijuana at all, from a society's perspective, except to allow doofuses like the guy in the picture to buy overpriced weed over the counter. BFD. What a sham.

By the way, "legal" is very misleading, as the feds retain jurisdiction over every single marijuana transaction, and every single marijuana possession, everywhere in the US. Everywhere. At any time. Over anyone (except for a couple of dozen persons who fall under a very narrow Government program for licensing medical marijuana). The only things keeping the feds from swooping down on those sellers and buyers are promises and (weak) policies in local and regional DEA offices.

Oh, sure this Administration has promised not to pursue arrests or prosecutions of persons who keep it in state, etc. It also promised if you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it.

CH
$100 per ounce on the black market for "high-quality" weed sounds rather cheap to me compared to my experience (from many moons ago). OTOH, $400 sounds pretty expensive.

I'm not ready to pronounce this a failure just yet though.
Whoa. Easy there with that straw man. I didn't say that and don't think it's a failure. I'm criticizing what I think is a prevailing attitude of the public at large who happens to support (weakly) the idea of decriminalization/legalization. One common argument or rationalization in favor of legalization seems to be "yeah, tax the hell out of it/at least it will raise some much needed tax revenues at the state and local levels." I think that is a terribly misguided rationalization and misses the whole point of ending the war on drugs -- it's a failure and has caused far more harm (mostly in the form of ruined lives due to criminal records for mere possession and in the form of gang/cartel/violence related activity to support and maintain the black market for it) than good -- just like prohibition.
Maybe the local taxes are particularly high in some areas but not others. Give market forces a little time to work. Maybe legal competition will bring the price down. And one factor in the high price is the Federal situation as you say. Maybe congress will do something to give states more local autonomy soon?

We're not going to end the war on drugs in one fell swoop. This is a baby step, but a step in the right direction. It's not an end state, but a transition state, and an important milestone. "Medical" marijuana has been legal in some places for a while, but this is the first instance of making it legal for recreational use, an important distinction. Tax levels can be changed if these ones don't work.
I agree with this.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
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"Time" -- Pink Floyd

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Cool Hand » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:54 pm

Rob Lister wrote:It is easy to get wrapped around the taxes as far as the stupidly exorbitant retail price is concerned.

Clearly taxes are not making that weed cost $400 an ounce.
In order to kill the black market, the over the counter market should, ideally, be able to undercut it. I'd even be in favor of tax subsidies in the form of credits for sales tax in order to drive the price down artificially, at least long enough to starve the illicit black market. Focusing on potential tax revenue misses the forest for the trees, in my estimation (think of the long term cost saving in law enforcement, courts, prisons, etc. by freeing up those resources for "real" crime).

Predatory pricing works for large entities who can afford to starve out the competition (when they can get away with it under our antitrust laws), and it would work in this instance too, if the right public policies were put forth to make the public a pseudo-partner with the legitimate weed sellers (in this instance it would be the legitimate sellers vs. the illicit dealers). Another thing that is needed is to ditch the draconian licensing requirements. That's a huge barrier to entry and runs counter to the policy of driving out the illicit trade. You want to encourage competition in this market, not squelch it.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
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The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by corplinx » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Seeing that line wrapped around the corner was the closest thing to a Berlin Wall moment we've had in the US for the past 30 years.

People enjoy freedom.

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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by asthmatic camel » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:59 pm

Is the stuff actually any good? I don't like cannabis myself and no longer associate with people who do but, back in the day, the educated stoners wouldn't touch the cheapo weed, much preferring the black resins. If it's expensive, shit shit, legalisation won't work.
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Cool Hand » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:22 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:Is the stuff actually any good? I don't like cannabis myself and no longer associate with people who do but, back in the day, the educated stoners wouldn't touch the cheapo weed, much preferring the black resins. If it's expensive, shit shit, legalisation won't work.
The supply market has undergone a tremendous sea change since you were a user or knew many users. There is a large subculture of home cultivists who grow their own very high quality weed. I'm betting the medical dispensaries, some of which are now retail dispensaries to the general public, have ready access to a very wide variety of very high quality weed.

tldr: Probably yes.

CH
....life purpose is pay taxes -- pillory 12/05/13

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
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Re: Pot shops in Denver to open for business tomorrow

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:24 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:and no longer associate with people who do but ...
We've got a few stoners here so ...

Not me. I get high on coffee.