Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by specious_reasons » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:27 pm

ed wrote:A more basic question is the extent of federal power. Why do they need to own 75% of a state? n.b. "Need" is always on the lips of gun rights deniers so I thought that I'd try it on for size, for yuks you understand :)


There are legitimate questions about federal overreach, and then there are standoffs between the government and ignorant ranchers who fail to pay their legal debts to the government.

Sometimes the issues even overlap, causing people to rally around criminals who don't deserve the assistance they get.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by hammegk » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:29 pm

Pick cotton in lieu of welfare. Lol.

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:47 pm

ed wrote:A more basic question is the extent of federal power. Why do they need to own 75% of a state?


My above post was too glib. Lincoln wasn't really a foward thinker.

The better question is, what does Nevada need with 25% of a Federally acquired territory.

Spoiler:
Image


So the U.S. stole it fair and square.

Nevadans. Pfft.

I swear, give them an inch ...

Hell, they're lucky they got Reno.

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:02 pm

ed wrote:A more basic question is the extent of federal power. Why do they need to own 84% of a state? n.b. "Need" is always on the lips of gun rights deniers so I thought that I'd try it on for size, for yuks you understand :)


Fixed it for you because I actually looked it up rather than going off of memory. I understated it. 84% is the current total.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by ed » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:17 pm

specious_reasons wrote:
ed wrote:A more basic question is the extent of federal power. Why do they need to own 75% of a state? n.b. "Need" is always on the lips of gun rights deniers so I thought that I'd try it on for size, for yuks you understand :)


There are legitimate questions about federal overreach, and then there are standoffs between the government and ignorant ranchers who fail to pay their legal debts to the government.

Sometimes the issues even overlap, causing people to rally around criminals who don't deserve the assistance they get.


true. But like a paranoid delusion, if you accept the basic premise then the whole thing makes sense.

Question is: what right do they have to "own" 70% of Nevada?
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:27 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:They were enforcing a court order. That's "due process".


It is not due process, even if a court does it.

He was not convicted of a crime.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:30 pm

hammegk wrote:Pick cotton in lieu of welfare. Lol.


A machine can pick a field of cotton, quicker than you can jump down spin around. :cowbell:
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:37 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:They were enforcing a court order. That's "due process".


It is not due process, even if a court does it.

He was not convicted of a crime.


Nonsense.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by ed » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:01 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:They were enforcing a court order. That's "due process".


It is not due process, even if a court does it.

He was not convicted of a crime.


Nonsense.


He lost his case ages ago. I think that was his due process. The problems here are more basic, I think.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by hammegk » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:41 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
hammegk wrote:Pick cotton in lieu of welfare. Lol.


A machine can pick a field of cotton, quicker than you can jump down spin around. :cowbell:

Maybe it needs welfare to work slower.

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:52 pm

Turns out that, were he alive today, Martin Luther King would be on Mr. Bundy's side. Just ask him

Bundy: If people are ‘offensive’ by what I say, ‘Martin Luther King hasn’t got his job done yet’

I thought about Rosa Park taking her seat at the front of the bus. Reverend Martin Luther King did not want her to take her seat in the front of the bus. That wasn’t what he was talking about. He did not say go to the front of the bus and that’s where your seat was. What Reverend King wanted was that she could sit anywhere in the bus …. and nobody would say anything about it,” Bundy explained. ” You and I can sit anywhere in the bus. That’s what he wanted. That’s what I want. I want her to be able to sit anywhere in the bus and I want to be able to sit by her anywhere in that bus. That’s what he wanted. He didn’t want this prejudice thing like the media tried to put on me yesterday. I’m not going to put up with that because that’s not what he wanted. That’s not what I want.


See, it turns out that people who think that saying that blacks might have been better to stay salves and who thinks their problems stem from a lack of opportunities to pick cotton is a bit idiotic are the REAL racists, whereas Good ol' Clive is the true heir to the legacy of "Rosa Park"

I don't know if he's a racist or just a dumbass, but he definitely needs a primer on when to put down the shovel.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:57 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:They were enforcing a court order. That's "due process".


It is not due process, even if a court does it.

He was not convicted of a crime.


Are you being denied your property rights if you park your car on the side of the highway, never bother removing it after you get one of those little stickers on the window, and eventually it gets towed? Because that's pretty damned close to what happened here. He refused to remove his cattle from land that was not his and that he refused to pay for the right to grze his cattle on (you can argue that the government should now own so much of the grazing land, but either way that land was not the property of Cliven Bundy) and so the government impounded them.
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by hammegk » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:00 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:They were enforcing a court order. That's "due process".


It is not due process, even if a court does it.

He was not convicted of a crime.


Are you being denied your property rights if you park your car on the side of the highway, never bother removing it after you get one of those little stickers on the window, and eventually it gets towed? Because that's pretty damned close to what happened here. He refused to remove his cattle from land that was not his and that he refused to pay for the right to grze his cattle on (you can argue that the government should now own so much of the grazing land, but either way that land was not the property of Cliven Bundy) and so the government impounded them.

It's called rustling.

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Doctor X » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:54 pm

I demand everyone support my demand to get something for nothing.

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by sparks » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:57 pm

Right Arm!!11Eleventy :dothewave: Down with the big.............erm..........................Whatever!!
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by corplinx » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:17 pm

Was the Bundy ranch the new Terry Schiavo moment for the fanatical right?

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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by gnome » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:20 pm

ed wrote:
gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
gnome wrote:If they really liked it the confrontation would have been the perfect excuse.


Ruby Ridge

I think that they rely on intimidation.


Then why didn't they go for it this time?


Ruby Ridge. Though Obama is oh so tone deaf, he is very sensitive to press treatment. There is no way the feds would have come out of a confrontation looking good.


That's contradictory... you can't rely on intimidation and avoid confrontation. Which is it that they want?
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Bruce » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:31 am

Watched an episode of Colbert Report about this today.

Laughed out loud over how quickly Hannity withdrew his support when the racist remarks started flying.

Nearly shit my pants when Bundy's posse announced that they put the women on the front lines intentionally so that if there was any shooting, the Federal government would get bad press for shooting women. :o
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:34 am

Bruce wrote:Nearly shit my pants when Bundy's posse announced that they put the women on the front lines intentionally so that if there was any shooting, the Federal government would get bad press for shooting women. :o


Wait, I've heard of that tactic before. . . . Where was it?


Oh yeah:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield
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Re: Right Wingers and the Bundy Ranch

Post by jacks » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:45 pm

Bruce wrote:Watched an episode of Colbert Report about this today.

Laughed out loud over how quickly Hannity withdrew his support when the racist remarks started flying.

Nearly shit my pants when Bundy's posse announced that they put the women on the front lines intentionally so that if there was any shooting, the Federal government would get bad press for shooting women. :o


He's so funny, he must have recounted harry reid's racist comment,

"He [Reid] was wowed by Obama's oratorical gifts and believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama -- a 'light-skinned' African American 'with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,' " Halperin and Heilemann say.


so funny.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/09/obama.reid/