Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by WildCat » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:59 pm

So Kim Davis appears in Federal court today to explain herself... I have a feeling this is going to go very, very badly for her.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:05 pm

Witness wrote: ... simply ignoring them is already criticism enough to get them upset.
This is the significant bit.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Doctor X » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:38 pm

I feel she will do as well as Roger. . . .

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by WildCat » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:57 pm

And Kim Davis is sitting in jail.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Doctor X » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Awesome.
Federal District Judge David Bunning held Kim Davis, the county clerk who has become a national symbol of anti-gay animus for her resistance to marriage equality, in contempt of court on Thursday. According to Dan Griffin, a reporter for local news station WSAZ, she was led out by U.S. Marshals. The judge reportedly said that financial sanctions were not enough to ensure her compliance with the law.

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Does not give the details as to "how long" and all of that.

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:13 pm

Seems excessive.

Why not just boot her from her job?
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by WildCat » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:14 pm

Doctor X wrote:Does not give the details as to "how long" and all of that.

--J.D.
With contempt it's until she decides to follow the judge's order. But I suppose she could also resign her office.

At any rate, she holds the keys to her cell.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by WildCat » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:15 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Seems excessive.

Why not just boot her from her job?
The judge can't do that, only the state legislature can do that.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Doctor X » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:18 pm

Actually gotten busy so I do not know if he specifically stated "yo' ass in jail until you agree to comply." I would not be surprised if it was.

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:09 am

Doctor X wrote:Actually gotten busy so I do not know if he specifically stated "yo' ass in jail until you agree to comply." I would not be surprised if it was.

--J.D.
And so she did not.

And so she went.
ASHLAND, Ky. — Five of six deputies in the office of a Kentucky county clerk taken into custody Thursday for her refusal to issue marriage licenses after the Supreme Court allowed gays to wed say they will process the paperwork starting Friday.

But Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, whom U.S. District Court Judge David Bunning found in contempt of court, said through her lawyers that she will not authorize any of her employees to issue licenses in her absence. The judge placed her in the custody of U.S. marshals and had her taken to Carter County jail.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /71635794/


We now know how tall she is.

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:26 am

Is "county clerk" an elected office or something? Does she have a boss? Can anyone fire her?
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:28 am

(Newser) – Two Tennessee residents are being forced to stay married by a judge with an apparent bone to pick over the US Supreme Court's decision on same-sex marriage, the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports. The couple filed for divorce in 2014, and last week Judge Jeffrey Atherton refused to grant the split for a number of cited reasons, including the following: "Tennesseans have been deemed by the US Supreme Court to be incompetent to define and address such keystone/central institutions such as marriage, and, thereby, at minimum, contested divorces." Since the Supreme Court redefined marriage in its decision, Atherton wants it to now also define "when a marriage is no longer a marriage," the Times Free Press reports.

Tennessee lawyers have called Atherton's ruling unusual, irrelevant, and of questionable legality. "I don't know for sure, but I suspect the US Supreme Court did not intend to preempt divorce law," one attorney tells the Times Free Press. "He is just making a statement," says Regina Lambert, one of the lawyers in the Supreme Court case. "I just think change is hard for people." The couple is free to refile for divorce, but they'll need new reasons, as Atherton found they failed to prove irreconcilable differences and inappropriate marital conduct. Or, as Atherton points out to the Times Free Press, they can always reconcile. "I just feel bad for the couple," Lambert tells the Guardian.
http://www.newser.com/story/212349/judg ... riage.html

It's a bit harder to throw him in jail ... being a judge and all.

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:40 am

Grown-ass people having temper tantrums.

Ultimately it will be no more effective than any temper tantrum ever is. Just makes the person having the tantrum look foolish. Judges in particular should take care to exercise good judgment methinks.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by WildCat » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:58 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Is "county clerk" an elected office or something? Does she have a boss? Can anyone fire her?
Yes
No
The legislature would have to remove her from office
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:20 am

WildCat wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:Is "county clerk" an elected office or something? Does she have a boss? Can anyone fire her?
Yes
No
The legislature would have to remove her from office
They could put her in jail and let her be a martyr. Or they could let people sue the shit out of her, or the county for violating their civil rights. Eventually, if the county has to give a million dollars to every couple who wants to get married but can't, taxpayers might say, is this really worth it?
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Doctor X » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:34 am

Never fuck with the Feds.

A poster who has less-than-cordial affections towards Your Humble--but MagNIfIcent--Messiah posted many years ago how a client with unable to confirm nor deny ties to the drug trade told him that, "when you're sitting in the soft leather chairs, you know you're fucked!"

The Federal judge can keep her in jail for as long as he wants, basically. However, let me provide evidences:
Categories of Contempt .--Crucial to an understanding of the history of the law governing the courts' powers of contempt is an awareness of the various kinds of contempt. With a few notable exceptions, the Court has consistently distinguished between criminal and civil contempts on the basis of the vindication of the authority of the courts on the one hand and the preservation and enforcement of the rights of the parties on the other. A civil contempt has been traditionally viewed as the refusal of a person in a civil case to obey a mandatory order. It is incomplete in nature, may be purged by obedience to the court order, and does not involve a sentence for a definite period of time. The classic criminal contempt is one where the act of contempt has been completed, punishment is imposed to vindicate the authority of the court, and a person cannot by subsequent action purge himself of such contempt.

Find Law
Neat. Now is there a maximum length to a civil contempt sentence? Can, for example, a reporter stew for two years and run out the contempt citation for refusing to reveal a source?

For criminal contempt--same linkypoo:
Due Process Limitations on Contempt Power: Right to Jury Trial .--Until recently, it was the rule that the right to a jury trial was not available in criminal contempt cases. But in Cheff v. Schnackenberg, it was held that when the punishment in a criminal contempt case in federal court is more than the sentence for a petty offense, the Court drew the traditional line at six months, a defendant is entitled to trial by jury.
Interesting.

From WIKI:
The civil sanction for contempt (which is typically incarceration in the custody of the sheriff or similar court officer) is limited in its imposition for so long as the disobedience to the court's order continues: once the party complies with the court's order, the sanction is lifted. The imposed party is said to "hold the keys" to his or her own cell, thus conventional due process is not required. The burden of proof for civil contempt, however, is a preponderance of the evidence, and theoretically punitive sanctions (punishment) can only be imposed after due process but the due process is unpublished.

In civil contempt cases there is no principle of proportionality. In Chadwick v. Janecka (3d Cir. 2002), a U.S. court of appeals held that H. Beatty Chadwick could be held indefinitely under federal law, for his failure to produce US$ 2.5 million as state court ordered in a civil trial. Chadwick had been imprisoned for nine years at that time and continued to be held in prison until 2009, when a state court set him free after 14 years, making his imprisonment the longest on a contempt charge to date.

Oh NOES t3h W1K1z
A more in depth but readable article:
Because of the fine line between coercion and punishment, there is always the possibility that a civil/coercive contempt sanction might evolve into a criminal sanction. This possibility exists in cases where a civil contemnor is subjected to continued “coercive” confinement despite the fact that there is “no realistic possibility or no substantial likelihood that additional confinement will coerce.” In such cases, the sanction should lost its civil status essentially because a coercive purpose no longer justifies continued confinement. This scenario is especially problematic because the incarcerated and uncoercible contemnor finds him or herself the victim of criminal confinement without having received the benefits of the required criminal procedural Protections. As a result, the presiding judge is required to make a “conscientious effort” to ensure that the contemnor is not subjected to further civil confinement in the absence of an ongoing and realistic possibility of coercing compliance.

Federal Contempt of Court
Neat, from the same source:
Except for a civilly confined recalcitrant witness who is entitled to have his appeal disposed of within 30 days of its filing,any other party has no right to immediately appeal an adjudication of civil contempt. “[A]n order of civil contempt is interlocutory and may not be challenged on an appeal until the entry of final judgment.” As a general rule, however, an adjudication of civil contempt is final and appealable as to a non-party.
Reads like her ass sits for as long as she remains recalcitrant. Should she lose her job through avenues noted by others, that might free her since she can no longer act so as to clear her contempt. The most likely is her resignation methinks. She refuses to do that but sitting in prison and possibly facing fines, like the ACLU has asked for, will either force her to comply or bankrupt her.

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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:03 pm

Read a headline today that claimed "Go Fund Me" rules prevent people from raising money for her defense fund or something like that. Couldn't be arsed to read the article.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:18 am

Image Uh oh, Bubbee. They are onto us. :evil:

[youtube][/youtube]



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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:12 am

Pyrrho wrote:Read a headline today that claimed "Go Fund Me" rules prevent people from raising money for her defense fund or something like that. Couldn't be arsed to read the article.
Probably true, but there are alternative crowdfunding sites. A Christian alternative to GoFundMe was started for exactly that reason.

I think that's how the cake bakers who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay wedding raised money.
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Re: Gay marriage ruling needs its own thread

Post by Doctor X » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:05 am

The bigot is beginning to crack:
Kim Davis thinks she has a solution to her problem.

The Kentucky county clerk, jailed for failing to follow a judge’s orders to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, wants her name removed from the marriage certificates, her attorney Matthew Staver told ABC News.
Buuuuuuuttttttt . . .
Marriage licenses in Kentucky are required to include an authorization statement of the county clerk issuing the license.

Staver said at a news conference this afternoon Davis "has no intention to resign."

ABC News
Then fuck her.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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