Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby WildCat » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:03 pm

EvilYeti wrote:
WildCat wrote:There's no illegally owned guns outside of Chiraq?

A straw purchase, btw, is an illegal purchase.


It's not a straw purchase until you transfer the weapon. The purchase is still legal.

Not unlike buying a six pack of beer and then giving it to a highschool kid. Get it?

Not true, it's illegal the moment they swear on the 4473 form, question 11a, that the purchase is not for anyone else. Before they even get the gun.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:22 am

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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby ed » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:42 am

WildCat wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:
WildCat wrote:There's no illegally owned guns outside of Chiraq?

A straw purchase, btw, is an illegal purchase.


It's not a straw purchase until you transfer the weapon. The purchase is still legal.

Not unlike buying a six pack of beer and then giving it to a highschool kid. Get it?

Not true, it's illegal the moment they swear on the 4473 form, question 11a, that the purchase is not for anyone else. Before they even get the gun.



Absolutely.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby ed » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:44 am

WildCat wrote:
EvilYeti wrote:
WildCat wrote:Chicago has the lowest rate of firearms ownership in the entire state of Illinois, and a murder rate that is 7 times greater than the rest of the state. How do you explain that?


Straw purchases from this store...

https://www.thetrace.org/2015/06/the-vi ... -gun-shop/

...and your numbers don't consider that.

I have no idea what the numbers have to do with that? Chuck's is the closest gun store to Chicago, it's not surprising that straw purchasers will go there. What do you suggest be done to stop that, refuse to sell to blacks?

Now explain why Chicago has a far higher murder rate than the rest of the state despite the lowest rate of firearm ownership.


What are the feds doing? It is obviously going on. People are committing felonies by buying and transporting and selling. What are the feds and local LE doing? How many arrests? How many convictions?
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby WildCat » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:09 am

ed wrote:What are the feds doing? It is obviously going on. People are committing felonies by buying and transporting and selling. What are the feds and local LE doing? How many arrests? How many convictions?

Glad you asked Ed! The Feds are doing diddley squat about it. The federal district which includes Chicago ranks 90 out of 90 federal districts for gun prosecutions.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Doctor X » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:48 am

Thanks Obama?

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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:39 am

When it comes to street gangs, Chicago cops implement a policy of containment. Not law enforcement.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:06 pm

WildCat wrote:
ed wrote:What are the feds doing? It is obviously going on. People are committing felonies by buying and transporting and selling. What are the feds and local LE doing? How many arrests? How many convictions?

Glad you asked Ed! The Feds are doing diddley squat about it. The federal district which includes Chicago ranks 90 out of 90 federal districts for gun prosecutions.


Interesting article there. According to the article, the No. 1 district in the country for federal gun prosecutions is Alaska, a state with about 30-40 murders in a typical year, roughly half of which involve a firearm.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby ed » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:11 pm

Anax, do you see the frustration that gun owners have? Our murder rate is driven by black men killing other black men. The laws that might address this problem are simply not enforced. If you have been following threads on this topic you would have seen reference to the disaster that is Baltimore where the Mayor begged for stiffer penalties to no avail. It is largely a black problem and no one wants to touch it.

The solution is to pass laws that simply do not address the problem. That is why I will not discuss "common sense laws" period. Not until I hear what is going to be done to enforce the laws that we have.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:18 pm

For ed:

The Real Gun-Control Story
It’s not about stopping shooters, it’s about identity politics.
http://www.nationalreview.com/node/436739/print

...

The cultural role of the NRA is to be the fat white face that absorbs the Left’s hatred for the hunting, shooting, and gun-collecting demographics.

...

But the reality of violence in the United States is practically unspeakable. And because this is fundamentally a question of social-status-jockeying rather than one of effective public policy, gun-control policies that might actually reduce crime are overlooked or opposed because they do not annoy the NRA. Indeed, gun control that doesn’t annoy the NRA isn’t considered proper gun control at all. We could be putting violent criminals away for gun-related crimes for longer terms and monitoring them more aggressively through an improved parole system. We could do that before they graduate to murder — remember how many of those charged with possession offenses have prior arrests and convictions. But this isn’t on any gun-control agenda.

Why?

For one thing, it probably would mean locking up a lot of young black men in Chicago rather than hassling a lot of old white guys living out weekend-warrior Rambo fantasies in Tulsa. And for the Democrats, that isn’t an option. The enemy is the enemy, and, guilty or not guilty, he must be punished.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby ed » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:24 pm

Yup
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:29 pm

Ed, I do understand your point. And I agree.

But I also see that what really seems to get people exercised is not black gang members shooting each other but the mass shootings like the one in Orlando or Sandy Hook. And in those cases at least, it doesn't seem to be a case that could have been prevented somehow because one of them was a mentally ill teenager whose mother was a law-abiding gun owner, and the other was a terrorist but not a common criminal, so he didn't have any record of lawbreaking that would have prevented him from passing a background check. Terrorist mass shootings are going to be a sore point if there's a lot more people out there like this one.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby ed » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:58 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Ed, I do understand your point. And I agree.

But I also see that what really seems to get people exercised is not black gang members shooting each other but the mass shootings like the one in Orlando or Sandy Hook. And in those cases at least, it doesn't seem to be a case that could have been prevented somehow because one of them was a mentally ill teenager whose mother was a law-abiding gun owner, and the other was a terrorist but not a common criminal, so he didn't have any record of lawbreaking that would have prevented him from passing a background check. Terrorist mass shootings are going to be a sore point if there's a lot more people out there like this one.


The ongoing problem is Islam.

If even a small percentage of adherents are dedicated to murdering infidels and if a sizeable minority of adherents "see their point" or basically agree that fags should die and adulterers should be stoned etc etc and if there are nation states that give them succor we have a very serious problem that is not going to be remedied by making nice.

The problem is that there are too many Whig historians out there and they are going to get us killed.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby WildCat » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:24 pm

Grammatron wrote:
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Battlefield 1 is looking to be that very game.

It does look pretty sweet, I love that you can have 64 players at once. That's what made WaW so great, you get 40+ players and it's sheer glorious chaos. Later versions had 18 players max and that just made them suck. I might have to pre-order this one!
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Skeeve » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:36 pm

Gun Store Owner: We Alerted FBI to 'Suspicious' Customer Weeks Before Orlando Shooting

The owner of a Florida gun store said he tried to alert the FBI to a "very suspicious" man later identified as Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen after Mateen tried to buy body armor and bulk ammunition from the store.

Robert Abell, a co-owner of Lotus Gunworks in Jensen Beach, Florida, told ABC News today that a man entered the store five or six weeks ago and asked specific questions about high-end body armor. When employees said the store didn't carry the body armor he wanted, Abell said, the man made a phone call in a foreign language, hung up and then asked about ammunition in bulk.

Abell said a member of his staff thought the questions were "odd" and made him uncomfortable, so he turned the man away.

Abell added that they thought the man was "very suspicious," so they called the local FBI office in West Palm Beach and reported the incident. But they didn't have the man's name, since no sale was made, and the only surveillance footage they had was grainy.

"We gave them information and everything that took place, and that was the end of the conversation," he said.

There was a follow-up conversation with agents, Abell said, but the FBI never visited the store or investigated further.

That was the end of it until he saw the news about the Orlando shooting that took place early Sunday morning and images of the man identified as the killer: Mateen, the man who Abell said was in the store.

"He slipped through the cracks," Abell said.

:sarcasm ON:
I am sure more gun control and more loss of privacy will make it so shit like this don't ever happen again....yep!
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby corplinx » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:19 pm

If I approach it scientifically, terrorist killings of citizens are statistically insignificant.

So if you ban a gun, you are ceding the point of terrorism (fear/intimidation). Stay with me though since terrorism isn't really a problem.



12,942 died to gun violence (self or other) in 2015 (according to one research group).

Of that, according to one source only 475 were due to "mass shootings" which they defined as 4 or more people shot in the incident.

There were 468 homicides in Chicago in 2015.

Most gun crimes are committed with hand guns. Rifles are a sliver minority of gun crimes.

Let's zoom out really quickly to take a picture.

Around 610,000 Americans die from heart disease each year. (CDC). So about 1 in 4 deaths is due to heart disease.
There is almost a 2 in 4 chance you will die to heart disease or cancer.

CDC stats for 2015:
Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 614,348
• Cancer: 591,699
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 147,101
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 136,053
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 133,103
• Alzheimer's disease: 93,541
• Diabetes: 76,488
• Influenza and pneumonia: 55,227
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,146
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 42,773

So the very last item in the list is suicide. 43k (rounded).

60 percent of gun deaths are suicides.

So 5176~ is people were killed by guns (and not by themselves.).

5175/475. Shooting and mass shooting deaths for 2015.


People with Heart Disease or Cancer earned their deaths. It's their own fault for eating hamburgers and smoking cigarettes. Had it coming right? Is is a Just World (Fallacy) after all. The idea that some stranger might randomly kill your kid while they are at school makes you shit your pants though. You want funding. You want CDC studies. You want hastily passed legislation. You are scared and too ashamed to admit it. You mask it with indignation. You want a higher power to appear to be protecting you.

Lawn Darts.

Nobody really needs lawn darts. You give some 10 year old boys these things, no telling what will get punctured. Punctured roofs and heads due to lawn darts were a statically insignificant source of death/harm/damage. However, it was a pointless way to be harmed physically or monetarily.

So acknowledging how insignificant semi-automatic rifles in the grand scheme of things are isn't an excuse to do nothing at all. However, I find the outrage machine to be symptomatic of everything awful about people. I have no love for the NRA. However, they are portrayed as diabolical evil people because your current moral panic isn't their concern.

Concern is in the eye of the beholder. Just because I am worried about being eaten by a shark or killed by a wild AR-15, doesn't mean I am an evil commie hyprocrit for not being concerned about alcohol, vehicles, or dunkin donuts.

It's a huge shitfest and we have it every time. The only thing we can all agree on is, we wish there wasn't an every time.
Last edited by corplinx on Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Grammatron » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:22 pm

Excellent point, except Cancer is a cunt that strikes people with healthy and unhealthy lifestyles.
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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby corplinx » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:24 pm

Grammatron wrote:Excellent point, except Cancer is a cunt that strikes people with healthy and unhealthy lifestyles.


I was mocking the mindset of people. Heart Disease is affected by genetics as well.

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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby hammegk » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:56 pm

corplinx wrote:
Grammatron wrote:Excellent point, except Cancer is a cunt that strikes people with healthy and unhealthy lifestyles.


I was mocking the mindset of people. Heart Disease is affected by genetics as well.

And last I looked (nonexistent) race. :D

Anyone for sickle cell?

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Re: Islamist Shoots up Gay Night Club in Orlando

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:10 pm

I think the reason we freak out disproportionately over statistical outliers like mass shootings (and terrorism in general, for that matter, at least in the US) and less so over things like automobile accidents or cancer is because The Joker was right.

People expect automobile accidents to kill lots of people, they expect some people they know to die of heart disease and/or cancer, they expect gang members to shoot each other. It is unsurprising. It is, as The Joker would say, part of the plan. 50 people getting murdered by some dumbfuck with a gun is not expected, it is not part of the plan, thus everyone loses their minds.

It's neither a good nor a bad thing, nor is there much that can be done about it. It just is.
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