Impeach Trump, already!

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Grammatron » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:51 pm

I must have missed the part where Trump has created a constitutional crisis necessitating a constitutional law expert.

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:18 pm

Grammatron wrote:I must have missed the part where Trump has created a constitutional crisis necessitating a constitutional law expert.
They just know he will and want to be prepared for it.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:32 am

So much for that emoluments clause stuff. I always thought that was pretty weak tea myself.

Judge dismisses suits claiming Trump violated emoluments clause
A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a pair of lawsuits claiming that President Donald Trump’s failure to divest himself of his real estate empire and other business holdings violated the Constitution’s provision banning receipt of foreign “emoluments” while in public office.

U.S. District Court Judge George Daniels ruled that the two suits were fatally flawed because the plaintiffs failed to show injury directly related to the use of Trump’s properties by foreign officials and governments.

Daniels, who sits in Manhattan and is an appointee of President Bill Clinton, also said the issue was one that Congress should police, not the courts.

“As the only political branch with the power to consent to violations of the Foreign Emoluments Clause, Congress is the appropriate body to determine whether, and to what extent, Defendant’s conduct unlawfully infringes on that power,” the judge wrote. “If Congress determines that an infringement has occurred, it is up to Congress to decide whether to challenge or acquiesce to Defendant’s conduct. As such, this case presents a non-justiciable political question.”

One of the cases dismissed Thursday was filed by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW, along with a group of employees and owners of hospitality businesses like restaurant and hotels. The other suit, brought as a class action on behalf of members of the public, was filed by an individual New York attorney, William Weinstein.

Daniels concluded that all the plaintiffs lacked standing to sue. He also suggested that if foreign governments were patronizing Trump businesses as a result of his presidency, this wouldn’t amount to a violation of the emoluments clause unless the president encouraged them to do so to receive some benefit from the U.S. government.

“It is wholly speculative whether the Hospitality Plaintiffs’ loss of business is fairly traceable to Defendant’s ‘incentives’ or instead results from government officials’ independent desire to patronize Defendant’s businesses,” the judge wrote. “Even before Defendant took office, he had amassed wealth and fame and was competing against the Hospitality Plaintiffs in the restaurant and hotel business. It is only natural that interest in his properties has generally increased since he became President.”
It sort of reminds me of various lawsuits by Birthers against Obama. They all basically got laughed out of court, because among other things, the people bringing the lawsuits didn't have standing.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:18 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:It sort of reminds me of various lawsuits by Birthers against Obama. They all basically got laughed out of court, because among other things, the people bringing the lawsuits didn't have standing.
American Citizens do not have standing?

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by ed » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:11 pm

Not unless you can speak spanish
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:35 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:It sort of reminds me of various lawsuits by Birthers against Obama. They all basically got laughed out of court, because among other things, the people bringing the lawsuits didn't have standing.
American Citizens do not have standing?

:freedom:

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Maybe someone can explain better, but I think that election results can only be challenged by another contender.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:14 pm

gnome wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:It sort of reminds me of various lawsuits by Birthers against Obama. They all basically got laughed out of court, because among other things, the people bringing the lawsuits didn't have standing.
American Citizens do not have standing?

:freedom:

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Maybe someone can explain better, but I think that election results can only be challenged by another contender.
You'd probably have to read the actual decisions. It might be the loser of the election, but probably Congress, in the case of the president. But not some random butthurt citizen.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:47 pm

Since you answered the question about our :freedom: seriously, it is basically that. I never bothered to read those decisions since I already knew the "Birther" claims were a load of dingo kidneys, so I suspect those who certified his ability to run in each state might have standing rather than "random slob." It reminds me of fans of Your Local Team suing because they lost to My Local Team. There is a whole NFL process that is suppose to handle such.

My quick g00gl3 did not find a case of, say, Some Slob who does not match the qualification for President, trying to get on a ballot. So this is just assumption on my part, but say I lie in registering with a state. Leaving aside possible perjury for that, if it is discovered I am not yet 35 or was born in a foreign country like California, then the relevant state--usually "secretary of state"--would remove me from the ballot. I could, I suppose, try to sue. Or someone will "sue" the Sec State over my lie and whether or not he has standing to sue, the Sec State will investigate.

Assuming I get elected, according to a crapload of searches, it is up to the Electoral College then Congress to make that determination. I am not going to link the pages I found since some contain errors. For example, one declared Ted Cruz ineligible because "he no natural born citizen" because "his father was not born in the US!

Ugh!

It is actually pretty simple. Imagine Obama WAS KENYAN USURPER!11!! The House Judiciary Committee--Republican Controlled--could have investigated it and impeached him for the crime of perjury--he took an oath he could not and, I am sure, SOMEWHERE swore he was eligible. Or they could just no like his face. If there was actual proof rather than fantasy, the Senate would probably convict.

Of course, there never was none which is why, as far as I know, no crank Congressman ever tried to introduce an Article of Impeach like the crank did against Trump.

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:15 pm

You gals need to stop bickering and nitpicking and just decide that the guy needs impeaching.

If the left has the votes, then they should go for it.

I'm not sure what cataclysmic damage that will do to our politics but I expect exactly none or little. Either way, Pence will make a fine, level-headed (more or less) pres. Impeaching Trump doesn't mean a Dem is in charge.

Not that I would mind that so long as it is not Hillary.

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by ed » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:03 am

Long article in the times today
WASHINGTON — During a night of heavy drinking at an upscale London bar in May 2016, George Papadopoulos, a young foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, made a startling revelation to Australia’s top diplomat in Britain: Russia had political dirt on Hillary Clinton.

About three weeks earlier, Mr. Papadopoulos had been told that Moscow had thousands of emails that would embarrass Mrs. Clinton, apparently stolen in an effort to try to damage her campaign.

Exactly how much Mr. Papadopoulos said that night at the Kensington Wine Rooms with the Australian, Alexander Downer, is unclear. But two months later, when leaked Democratic emails began appearing online, Australian officials passed the information about Mr. Papadopoulos to their American counterparts, according to four current and former American and foreign officials with direct knowledge of the Australians’ role.

The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/p ... sContainer

Seems like thin gruel to me. And as the impetus fr an investigation is even more perplexing. The Times article is insistent to the point of begging. Dunno
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:58 am

So ed.

Suppose there is a bunch of Russian dirt on Hillary and it comes out.

What are we supposed to do about it?

Impeach her in that alternate universe?
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by ed » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:22 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:So ed.

Suppose there is a bunch of Russian dirt on Hillary and it comes out.

What are we supposed to do about it?

Impeach her in that alternate universe?
It being Hillary she is, ipso facto guilty and must be strung up.
Cerially, if she did something illegal <snigger> she should face the music like any other ( :roll: ) citizen.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:48 pm

If the emails were illegally obtained, and it appears that they were, it should not matter which party was hacked. If Papadopoulos knew about it and failed to report it to U.S. authorities and instead tried to use it for advantage, fuck him. Likewise for the Trump campaign, or the Sanders campaign, or the Stein campaign, or the Clinton campaign, or any other group or individual. The Russians are not our friends. This was a matter for law enforcement, not for election asshattery.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by ed » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:30 pm

Pyrrho wrote:If the emails were illegally obtained, and it appears that they were, it should not matter which party was hacked. If Papadopoulos knew about it and failed to report it to U.S. authorities and instead tried to use it for advantage, fuck him. Likewise for the Trump campaign, or the Sanders campaign, or the Stein campaign, or the Clinton campaign, or any other group or individual. The Russians are not our friends. This was a matter for law enforcement, not for election asshattery.
Agree. Except that I do not think that one has an obligation to report a crime, particularly if one does not know if a crime has been committed.

Any good lawyer (ask RCmk2) and they will tell you that Mr. Papapapdolous had every reason to suspect that the emails were obtained legally from the people that owned them and who were concerned with a crime family entering the white house. So concerned, in fact, that they made their personal correspondence available to the Russians to do with as they saw fit. But Mr Papadapodoodleis really had no first hand knowledge at all.

There is nothing to see here. And if you remove the word "russian" it is barely newsworthy. Except Trump ...
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:15 pm

This just in! Trump not nuts after all. :lmao:

OK it's Breitbart, so caution advised.

Psychiatrist Who Told Democrats Trump Unstable Backs Away from Claims
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by ed » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:02 pm

A reasoned editorial in the NYT. Here is the heafline"
Is Mr. Trump Nuts?
Note that this is not an op-ed piece by Maxine Waters, it is over the byline of the Editorial Board.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/opin ... egion&_r=0


This might be the most dishonest thing that I have seen come out of the Editorial Board of the Times. It takes a position without taking one. Cowardly and vile.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:18 pm

Of course Trump is not "nuts".

Is Satan "nuts"?

QED, mammy-jammers! :evil:
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:So much for that emoluments clause stuff. I always thought that was pretty weak tea myself.

Judge dismisses suits claiming Trump violated emoluments clause

It sort of reminds me of various lawsuits by Birthers against Obama. They all basically got laughed out of court, because among other things, the people bringing the lawsuits didn't have standing.
Political question and standing doctrines have nothing to do with the merits of a claim.

Although this answers the above question of why the Democrats may be preparing for impeachment by promoting an expert in constitutional law.

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by ed » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:20 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:So much for that emoluments clause stuff. I always thought that was pretty weak tea myself.

Judge dismisses suits claiming Trump violated emoluments clause

It sort of reminds me of various lawsuits by Birthers against Obama. They all basically got laughed out of court, because among other things, the people bringing the lawsuits didn't have standing.
Political question and standing doctrines have nothing to do with the merits of a claim.

Although this answers the above question of why the Democrats may be preparing for impeachment by promoting an expert in constitutional law.

Hmm ... so you think that their long game may be to wait till the midterms to get a majority so they can impeach?

Do you really think that they would go down that road? I don't want to sound alarmist but that could result in bloodshed.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:43 pm

As a strategy, it doesn't work. They could theoretically get it in the house, but there's no way the Senate goes for it, even if the Democrats manage to take a slim majority.
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