Impeach Trump, already!

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:25 am

shuize wrote:
gnome wrote:Hey, we agree on something!

What bugs me about it all -- how hard is it to acknowledge that the good indicators now are a continuation of a recovery that began under Obama, indeed in his earlier years in office.
Yeah, the MSM was never interested in fluffing for Obama. :roll eyes:
I don't care about media hype, let's look at the numbers.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:32 am

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:Check out the 10-year trend. Again, it's not that Trump has anything to be ashamed of economically. It's just an invalid narrative that he presided over any kind of a turnaround that wasn't already going on.
GDP was trending downward in Obama's last year in office.

Image

Every quarter under Trump is bigger than the same quarter under Obama. The economy really does respond to decreases in regulation and lower tax rates.
Is that how it works, get shot down on one set of figures and just slide into another?

Alright.

I notice you say "trending downwards" but the chart refers to percent change rather than absolute GDP, and doesn't go negative. Let's look at the trend in growth rates over ten years also. Looks kind of similar. You seem to be mistaking fluctuations for a long term trend. I observe that it's been hovering around 2% since late 2009. Hard to see a radical change there.
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"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Grammatron » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:57 am

gnome wrote: I don't care about media hype...
That's an odd thing to say considering that's the only reason this is a conversation to begin with.

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:23 pm

Let me rephrase--I don't plan to evaluate the actual economy according to how the media presents it.
Any media narrative is of course subject to ridicule if deserved.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by WildCat » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:35 pm

The only thing propping up the economy during the Obama years was massive federal "stimulus" spending. As soon as that ended the economy started sputtering. Deregulation and tax cuts got it moving again.

And I'll add that the reason most people didn't feel the effects of Obama's stimulus spending was they weren't in industries receiving the funding. Basically industries favored by Democrats either because they were politically correct (Solyndra) or benefitted labor unions. Deregulation and tax cuts were universal, and everyone feels the benefits.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by WildCat » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:29 pm

Atlanta Fed GDP growth estimate for the 2nd Quarter is now 4.8%: https://www.frbatlanta.org/cqer/research/gdpnow.aspx
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Doctor X » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:33 pm

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:04 am

WildCat wrote:The only thing propping up the economy during the Obama years was massive federal "stimulus" spending. As soon as that ended the economy started sputtering. Deregulation and tax cuts got it moving again.

And I'll add that the reason most people didn't feel the effects of Obama's stimulus spending was they weren't in industries receiving the funding. Basically industries favored by Democrats either because they were politically correct (Solyndra) or benefitted labor unions. Deregulation and tax cuts were universal, and everyone feels the benefits.
Ok, so first the economy was down according to you, and now that I showed that wasn't the case, it was being "propped up".

"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by WildCat » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:12 am

gnome wrote:Ok, so first the economy was down according to you, and now that I showed that wasn't the case, it was being "propped up".
I'm sure a winning message for the Democrats in November will be "who are you going to believe, us or your lying paychecks?"
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by gnome » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:37 am

The person to come along late in a recovery can honestly say that people were better off while he was around. Are we arguing what will work as a political ploy? I thought we were taking on a more substantial analysis.

By the indicators YOU CHOSE, this has been happening for quite some time.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by corplinx » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:20 am

The past 3 decades were lost decades. The Clinton boom turned out to be the just the web 1.0 bubble and it all dissolved overnight. We hadn't gained any real new industries with any real capital. If yahoo goes tits up, nothing is really lost except the jobs. There isn't a plant, a mine, a port, a factory.

There was no recovery under Obama, just more "getting by".

A few sectors would push upwards (the smartphone era), but that wasn't giving people fucking jobs.

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:41 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Not "fake" exactly.

But misleading if you're thinking employment == 100% of people willing to work minus the "rate of unemployment".
"Willing to work" but not employed doesn't count as unemployed, nor has it in the past. You have to have actively sought work within the past four weeks. If you go longer than 4 weeks without seeking a job, they call that "marginally attached to the workforce."



And really, Trump did breach protocol by tweeting about the jobs report before it was released. He didn't break the law, but presidents aren't supposed to do that. It's kept secret until its scheduled time for public announcement for a reason. It's not like he couldn't have waited another 90 minutes to crow about it.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:46 am

corplinx wrote:The past 3 decades were lost decades. The Clinton boom turned out to be the just the web 1.0 bubble and it all dissolved overnight. We hadn't gained any real new industries with any real capital. If yahoo goes tits up, nothing is really lost except the jobs. There isn't a plant, a mine, a port, a factory.

There was no recovery under Obama, just more "getting by".

A few sectors would push upwards (the smartphone era), but that wasn't giving people fucking jobs.
What do you base all this on? There's about 30 million more full-time jobs in the US than in 1990.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by WildCat » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:55 am

Anaxagoras wrote:What do you base all this on? There's about 30 million more full-time jobs in the US than in 1990.
And 75 million more people than in 1990.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:28 am

WildCat wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:What do you base all this on? There's about 30 million more full-time jobs in the US than in 1990.
And 75 million more people than in 1990.
OK, granted, although the working age population (defined as 15-64) only increased by 47 million. There's a lot more oldsters today.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by corplinx » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:31 am

How many starbucks jobs keep an economy thriving anyway?

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:18 am

The "propping up the economy" bit is bipartisan.

Just remember The Evil Empire didn't evil themselves to death, they ran out of money.
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:55 pm

OK it's not impeachment, but The Don is about to be subpoena'd.

Sources: Colin Kaepernick's legal team expected to subpoena President Trump in case against NFL (Yahoo Sports)

Disclaimer: It's the ubiquitous Unnamed Source TM again. :BigGrin3:
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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Bruce » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:24 am

This is sure to be a photo that will define Trump's presidency for future history students.
Image
It even looks like a classic Normal Rockwell painting.
Image
Such potential!

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Re: Impeach Trump, already!

Post by Doctor X » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:11 am

The Japanese Original:

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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