The SJW war on us thread

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:02 pm

I'll stipulate he didn't say so explicitly and so my original statement was too strong.

I still point out that he made a more significant statement than what Wildcat attributed. He did not just refer to a difference in interest, he gave an explanation based on questionable and stereotyped reasoning.

Whether a difference in personality merely makes someone disinterested instead of unsuited is not a hair that we need to split here. You can pick any side of that you want.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:13 pm

gnome wrote:I'll stipulate he didn't say so explicitly and so my original statement was too strong.

I still point out that he made a more significant statement than what Wildcat attributed. He did not just refer to a difference in interest, he gave an explanation based on questionable and stereotyped reasoning.

Whether a difference in personality merely makes someone disinterested instead of unsuited is not a hair that we need to split here. You can pick any side of that you want.
Quote that statement.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:17 pm

I refer to the entire section on personality differences for that answer. its existence in the text is more than just noting that there is in fact a difference in interest level.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 pm

gnome wrote:I refer to the entire section on personality differences for that answer. its existence in the text is more than just noting that there is in fact a difference in interest level.
So you can't quote where he said something more strongly?

Have you even read it gnome?

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:25 pm

gnome wrote:I'll stipulate he didn't say so explicitly and so my original statement was too strong.

I still point out that he made a more significant statement than what Wildcat attributed. He did not just refer to a difference in interest, he gave an explanation based on questionable reasoning.

Whether a difference in personality merely makes someone disinterested instead of unsuited is not a hair that we need to split here. You can pick any side of that you want.
I don't think there's any hair splitting here. In the context of conversation about how Google should approach diversity AND in further context of "This document is mostly written from the perspective of Google’s Mountain View campus, I can’t speak about other offices or countries." That's a very, very narrow context.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:40 pm

Wouldn't that be even less justification to use general population studies to explain local variances?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:I refer to the entire section on personality differences for that answer. its existence in the text is more than just noting that there is in fact a difference in interest level.
So you can't quote where he said something more strongly?

Have you even read it gnome?
"There is a difference in interest level between males and females"

is not as strong a statement as

"There is a difference in interest level between males and females because of X".
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:45 pm

gnome wrote:Wouldn't that be even less justification to use general population studies to explain local variances?
The paper explains itself very well, your question is answered within it.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:49 pm

gnome wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:I refer to the entire section on personality differences for that answer. its existence in the text is more than just noting that there is in fact a difference in interest level.
So you can't quote where he said something more strongly?

Have you even read it gnome?
"There is a difference in interest level between males and females"

is not as strong a statement as

"There is a difference in interest level between males and females because of X".
Can you copy and paste in context? Because I don't think you're doing that.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:08 am

gnome wrote:"There is a difference in interest level between males and females because of X".
I deny everything.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by WildCat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:18 am

gnome wrote:His claims that women were often biologically unsuited to the roles
Did he actually say that? Can you quote it?

eta: should RTFT before replying.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Witness » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:37 am

New 'Feminist Business School' Will Help You Battle Both Capitalism And The Patriarchy

An online education program, started by Evergreen State College graduate and former "feminist performance artist" Jennifer Armbrust, promises to help women engage in the business world without losing their core feminist values: how to "conceive" and "birth" a new business while systematically dismantling the Patriarchy and establishing yourself as an "earth-centered" goddess.

Sister.is (because of course that's its name) promises that those willing to pay a very capitalist $1200 to take Armbrust's online course, “Concepts and Conceptions,” will learn how to "give birth" to feminist businesses, while she acts as a "midwife," assuring that you continue to battle the forces of oppression while encouraging them to patronize your new endeavor.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180110041 ... ly-zanotti

From the Sister site:
CAN A BUSINESS BE FEMINIST?
WHAT WOULD THAT REQUIRE?
LET'S FIND OUT

We offer classes and workshops that empower entrepreneurs to build purposeful and sustainable businesses that embody their values. We believe in the tenets of the feminist movement. We embrace feminine principles of ease, experimentation, pleasure, and play. We exalt integration and embodiment as we quest to build businesses in harmony with our body, the earth, our communities, and our beliefs. We are committed to growth and expansive consciousness.

We endeavor to topple the patriarchy, internally and externally. We see business as a site of personal power, radical creativity, and meaningful social change. We know that we can survive and thrive in business without compromising our values. We believe work can be fun. We hold fast to our declaration that
A BUSINESS CAN BE A MODEL FOR A NEW SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC ORDER.
https://sister.is/feminist-business-school/

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:51 am

But will any business hire a graduate of such a school?
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Witness » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:16 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:But will any business hire a graduate of such a school?
How petty! :roll: Anyway they don't want to make profit, so who cares? (Apart from separating idiots from their 1200 $…)

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 am

Witness wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:But will any business hire a graduate of such a school?
How petty! :roll: Anyway they don't want to make profit, so who cares? (Apart from separating idiots from their 1200 $…)
So while it might not be a good business school, it's not necessarily a bad business model. :BigGrin3:

To quote the less quoted half of Barnum's most famous quote " ... and two to take him". :coolspecs:
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by gnome » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:27 am

Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:I refer to the entire section on personality differences for that answer. its existence in the text is more than just noting that there is in fact a difference in interest level.
So you can't quote where he said something more strongly?

Have you even read it gnome?
"There is a difference in interest level between males and females"

is not as strong a statement as

"There is a difference in interest level between males and females because of X".
Can you copy and paste in context? Because I don't think you're doing that.
The distribution of preferences of men and women differ.
Is not a strong a statement as
I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.
Does that help? In fact, because of the bolded, that's an implication about suitability after all.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by WildCat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:29 pm



They call everyone a fascist, they can't even define the word.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:50 pm

gnome wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:I refer to the entire section on personality differences for that answer. its existence in the text is more than just noting that there is in fact a difference in interest level.
So you can't quote where he said something more strongly?

Have you even read it gnome?
"There is a difference in interest level between males and females"

is not as strong a statement as

"There is a difference in interest level between males and females because of X".
Can you copy and paste in context? Because I don't think you're doing that.
The distribution of preferences of men and women differ.
Is not a strong a statement as
I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.
Does that help? In fact, because of the bolded, that's an implication about suitability after all.
What is false with that statement?

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by gnome » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:55 pm

I question it, but the main thing I am pointing out is that it is a stronger claim, containing more to evaluate and more to potentially object to, than just pointing out that there is a difference in preferences.

I am directly disputing Wildcat's dismissive statement "All he did was say there's a difference in preference". He said more than that. That is my point.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:52 pm

gnome wrote:I question it, but the main thing I am pointing out is that it is a stronger claim, containing more to evaluate and more to potentially object to, than just pointing out that there is a difference in preferences.
It's not that strong of a claim since he is not convinced of it himself, it's just something that the data he is citing is pointing to in this context. Even then, he says it "may explain", hardly absolute terms.