The SJW war on us thread

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Giz » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:32 pm

Not really sure which thread this belongs in put I was flabbergasted by the brazenness of the NYT’s anti census angle:

“the Trump administration is reinstating a question about citizenship to the 2020 census.
...
This is important because the census count determines how many House seats each state gets. The census is also used to determine the allocation of more than $600 billion in federal spending, including Medicaid, food stamps and grants to schools. Asking about citizenship would reduce responses from immigrant families, which are already less likely than others to answer government surveys and are terrified by President Trump’s anti-immigrant policies and statements. An inaccurate count is likely to provide more representation to states with fewer immigrants and higher response rates and take seats away from states like California where response rates would be lower. Given the geography of American politics, that would probably lead to more power for Republicans, and less for Democrats. “

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opin ... on=Opinion

How dare the US government allocate resources and representation based on where citizens, rather than illegal aliens, live?!!

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby gnome » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:35 pm

I think they're proposing that even legal citizens of immigrant families would wind up being undercounted.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:37 pm

Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Giz » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:37 pm

gnome wrote:I think they're proposing that even legal citizens of immigrant families would wind up being undercounted.


Legal citizens can just answer the census.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:59 pm

Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:I think they're proposing that even legal citizens of immigrant families would wind up being undercounted.


Legal citizens can just answer the census.


For that matter, how about legal immigrants?

Remember those? Plenty of them really.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Giz » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:05 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:I think they're proposing that even legal citizens of immigrant families would wind up being undercounted.


Legal citizens can just answer the census.


For that matter, how about legal immigrants?

Remember those? Plenty of them really.


Heck, I was one (before becoming a citizen; not implying I'd become illegal ).


Saying that a state should get more congressmen because it has more illegals living there ... it is mind blowing.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby gnome » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:18 pm

According to the Constitution, for purposes of apportionment the census is to include all residents, whether they are citizens or not.

You can go back and forth on why and whether it should, but changing that would require a constitutional amendment, not a decision to perform the census in a way that will lead to inaccuracy, just because you think the inaccuracy will lean in a justifiable direction.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Giz » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:24 pm

gnome wrote:According to the Constitution, for purposes of apportionment the census is to include all residents, whether they are citizens or not.

You can go back and forth on why and whether it should, but changing that would require a constitutional amendment, not a decision to perform the census in a way that will lead to inaccuracy, just because you think the inaccuracy will lean in a justifiable direction.


Is fine the way it is, it's just that the legally recognized amount of residents should be based on legal residents.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Grammatron » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:05 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?


Why wouldn't they?
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Grammatron » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:06 pm

Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:According to the Constitution, for purposes of apportionment the census is to include all residents, whether they are citizens or not.

You can go back and forth on why and whether it should, but changing that would require a constitutional amendment, not a decision to perform the census in a way that will lead to inaccuracy, just because you think the inaccuracy will lean in a justifiable direction.


Is fine the way it is, it's just that the legally recognized amount of residents should be based on legal residents.


SCOTUS disagrees

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenwel_v._Abbott
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Giz » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:According to the Constitution, for purposes of apportionment the census is to include all residents, whether they are citizens or not.

You can go back and forth on why and whether it should, but changing that would require a constitutional amendment, not a decision to perform the census in a way that will lead to inaccuracy, just because you think the inaccuracy will lean in a justifiable direction.


Is fine the way it is, it's just that the legally recognized amount of residents should be based on legal residents.


SCOTUS disagrees

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenwel_v._Abbott


That link says "use total population ". Does total population include those who should immediately leave the country? I mean, if the government are to operate under the presumption that people are not going to break the law, they should assume that anyone who has no legal right to remain will leave the next day, leaving a total population of citizens, green card, work visa... etc.

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Grammatron » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:20 pm

Giz wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:According to the Constitution, for purposes of apportionment the census is to include all residents, whether they are citizens or not.

You can go back and forth on why and whether it should, but changing that would require a constitutional amendment, not a decision to perform the census in a way that will lead to inaccuracy, just because you think the inaccuracy will lean in a justifiable direction.


Is fine the way it is, it's just that the legally recognized amount of residents should be based on legal residents.


SCOTUS disagrees

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenwel_v._Abbott


That link says "use total population ". Does total population include those who should immediately leave the country? I mean, if the government are to operate under the presumption that people are not going to break the law, they should assume that anyone who has no legal right to remain will leave the next day, leaving a total population of citizens, green card, work visa... etc.


Total population is everyone who is residing in the district.

The idea being that services, roads, hospitals, police, etc.. should at least attempt to be prepared to adequately serve the total population. No one wins if you have 100K people living somewhere but the budgets only allow for country roads and 1 Sheriff because there are only 10 citizens (to use an incredibly extreme example).
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?


Why wouldn't they?


What's in it for them?
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Grammatron » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:26 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?


Why wouldn't they?


What's in it for them?


Same thing that's in it for the citizens.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby ed » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:10 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Giz wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Giz wrote:
gnome wrote:According to the Constitution, for purposes of apportionment the census is to include all residents, whether they are citizens or not.

You can go back and forth on why and whether it should, but changing that would require a constitutional amendment, not a decision to perform the census in a way that will lead to inaccuracy, just because you think the inaccuracy will lean in a justifiable direction.


Is fine the way it is, it's just that the legally recognized amount of residents should be based on legal residents.

The difficty with including all residents is that then rhere is less encouragement for locales to observe fexeral law. If the onus of hgaving illegals rests squarely on a stare, sanbctuaey cities would be less likely.
SCOTUS disagrees

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenwel_v._Abbott


That link says "use total population ". Does total population include those who should immediately leave the country? I mean, if the government are to operate under the presumption that people are not going to break the law, they should assume that anyone who has no legal right to remain will leave the next day, leaving a total population of citizens, green card, work visa... etc.


Total population is everyone who is residing in the district.

The idea being that services, roads, hospitals, police, etc.. should at least attempt to be prepared to adequately serve the total population. No one wins if you have 100K people living somewhere but the budgets only allow for country roads and 1 Sheriff because there are only 10 citizens (to use an incredibly extreme example).
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby gnome » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:31 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?


Why wouldn't they?


Because they're specifically afraid that the information will be used to target them, or generally afraid of any and all authority figures.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby Grammatron » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:36 pm

gnome wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?


Why wouldn't they?


Because they're specifically afraid that the information will be used to target them, or generally afraid of any and all authority figures.


Evidences? Thanks.
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby gnome » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:43 am

Evidence that illegal immigrants are afraid of authority? Is that really in question here?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby ed » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:09 am

gnome wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why would anyone suppose illegal aliens cooperate with the census?


Why wouldn't they?


Because they're specifically afraid that the information will be used to target them, or generally afraid of any and all authority figures.


So any question, regardless of it's content or object is completely irrelevant. Right?
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Re: The SJW war on us thread

Postby ed » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:11 am

The point is that providing infrastructure and services for people who have no right to them is the height of stupidity and, seemingly, the way to make "sanctuary" cities face up to the implications of their Kabuki Play is to make them pay for the services that the illegals consume. Seems fair.
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