The Schadenfreude Thread

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:38 am

Grammatron wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:03 am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... nst-trump/
In a new interview with The Washington Post's Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman, Davis is backing off two massive claims he made in recent weeks, including that former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen has told people he witnessed President Donald Trump being informed of Donald Trump Jr.'s 2016 Trump Tower meeting with a Russian lawyer before it happened.

"I should have been more clear - including with you - that I could not independently confirm what happened," Davis said, adding: "I regret my error."

Davis also backed off his claim that Cohen has information suggesting that Trump knew in advance about Russian hacking of Democrats' emails in 2016.

"I am not sure," he said. "There's a possibility that is the case. But I am not sure."

The first of these claims was put forward anonymously, initially in a story which CNN is standing by. The Post also reported it - though unlike CNN it didn't report Cohen as saying Trump knew the information was coming from Russians - and cited Davis as an unnamed source. The second claim was made publicly by Davis on TV.
Nice journalism.
It's also pretty remarkable that, despite the first of these claims having been in the public domain for several weeks now - CNN's story broke exactly one month ago, on July 27 - Davis only began reining it in last week. Why wait that long if it was erroneous? Did Cohen not notice he was being put forward as the guy who might be able to prove Trump's collusion with Russia - a claim that, if true, could end an American presidency?

The most obvious answer would seem to be that Cohen may be the one contradicting himself. Ever since the CNN story broke, the question has been whether Cohen told congressional investigators the same story when he testified behind closed doors at a time when he was more loyal to Trump. There were indications that this new version of events wasn't exactly compatible with that testimony, which could open Cohen up to more legal problems.

When Cohen reached a plea deal last week, the Senate Intelligence Committee's top Republican and Democrat made a rare joint, public statement saying they wanted Cohen to continue cooperating with their Russia investigation. They also said they had reached out to Cohen's lawyers after the CNN story broke and asked whether he wanted to amend his testimony. Cohen has declined to do so.

But you also have to think that possible contradiction would be something Davis and Cohen (who is also a lawyer by trade) would have sorted out before Davis went public with these claims.

However this came about, though, it's damaging to Cohen's credibility. Davis is his lawyer and spokesman, after all, which means these claims effectively came from Cohen himself. Davis is now trying to take ownership of them and take the blame himself, but the explanations he offers are really difficult to swallow, especially given the gravity of the claims.

And that has bearing on both the Russia investigation and whatever problems Trump may encounter from the Southern District of New York's plea deal with Michael Cohen on a campaign-finance violation (in which Cohen also implicated Trump). Cohen was supposed to be the guy flipping on Trump and telling investigators everything he knows about the skeletons in Trump's closet. This episode has to make everyone involved wonder whether his claims are all they're made out to be. Regardless of how you want all of this to shake out, it's best to base a case around people who won't undermine it. Cohen wasn't a fantastic witness before; he's a worse one now.
Is Lanny Davis spending way too much time trying this case via the media or what?

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that he would better serve his client's interest by not going on TV and blabbing, not leaking sensational recordings to the media, and generally limiting himself to only a few careful public statements in defense of his client.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Doctor X » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:13 am

Methinks he knows his client is fucked, and he is trying to gain popular support.

I would not be surprised, only my speculations, if his client fed him some crap, he ran with it hoping to get a juicy deal, only to find out it was crap. Of course, that could be on the level of "I speculate it was chemtrails!" since he could dump him.

Whatever, he is getting publicity which, for a lawyer, is rarely bad. Look at the Idiot Multiply Disgraced and Successfully Sued Shyster of Stormy Daniels.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Skeeve » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:25 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:38 am
Grammatron wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:03 am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... nst-trump/
In a new interview with The Washington Post's Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman, Davis is backing off two massive claims he made in recent weeks, including that former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen has told people he witnessed President Donald Trump being informed of Donald Trump Jr.'s 2016 Trump Tower meeting with a Russian lawyer before it happened.

"I should have been more clear - including with you - that I could not independently confirm what happened," Davis said, adding: "I regret my error."

Davis also backed off his claim that Cohen has information suggesting that Trump knew in advance about Russian hacking of Democrats' emails in 2016.

"I am not sure," he said. "There's a possibility that is the case. But I am not sure."

The first of these claims was put forward anonymously, initially in a story which CNN is standing by. The Post also reported it - though unlike CNN it didn't report Cohen as saying Trump knew the information was coming from Russians - and cited Davis as an unnamed source. The second claim was made publicly by Davis on TV.
Nice journalism.
...
CNN, and possibly "fake news...?"

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by shuize » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 am

Doctor X wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:13 am
Methinks he knows his client is fucked, and he is trying to gain popular support.

I would not be surprised, only my speculations, if his client fed him some crap, he ran with it hoping to get a juicy deal, only to find out it was crap. Of course, that could be on the level of "I speculate it was chemtrails!" since he could dump him.

Whatever, he is getting publicity which, for a lawyer, is rarely bad. Look at the Idiot Multiply Disgraced and Successfully Sued Shyster of Stormy Daniels.

--J.D.
I originally wrote, "I think his client is fucked even worse now."

But having thought about it a bit more, I'm debating which of the three (Cohen, Davis, or CNN) comes out looking worse in this.

Cohen for possibly getting caught lying while rolling on his client, the President of the United States.

Davis for doing such a shitty job as an attorney for his role in pushing a such big story that, if untrue, fucks his client even worse.

CNN for continuing to highlight its lack of journalistic integrity in standing by this story even after its source has walked it back.
Last edited by shuize on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Doctor X » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:01 am

shuize wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 am
I think his client is fucked even worse now.
The fact he plead out without really becoming a witness pretty much says that, but he faces less than a decade in prison. He seemed arrogantly incompetent with following basic law. A bit like a doctor who thinks he is above medicine.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by shuize » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:16 am

Doctor X wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:01 am
shuize wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 am
I think his client is fucked even worse now.
The fact he plead out without really becoming a witness pretty much says that, but he faces less than a decade in prison. He seemed arrogantly incompetent with following basic law. A bit like a doctor who thinks he is above medicine.

--J.D.
Yes. It's still Cohen. Rolling on one's client is bad enough. It's only semi- permissible if it involves ongoing criminal activity. Short of participating in the criminal activity itself, getting caught lying while rolling on one's client is about as bad as it gets.

It doesn't say much for Trump's choice of attorneys. I guess he didn't know (or care) that Cooley (Cohen's alma mater) is ranked among the very worst law schools in the country.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Doctor X » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:46 am

Whether one believes Trump or not, the facts are he paid her off to make her go away, she accepted it, then now wants to get more. That is all it is or ever was.

He chose a shyster able to do that.

The shyster was a shyster who, like the hooker's shyster, "was a bad lad" with his fingers in some dirty pies.

That is all it is.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by WildCat » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:31 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:38 am
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that he would better serve his client's interest by not going on TV and blabbing, not leaking sensational recordings to the media, and generally limiting himself to only a few careful public statements in defense of his client.
He's the Democrat version of Rudy Guiliani.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Skeeve » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:06 pm

Michael Cohen’s lawyer has done real damage to the case against Trump
One of the most bizarre aspects of the investigations engulfing the Trump administration is the lawyers involved. Here we have a presidency on the line, and this is Trump’s team? The top legal spokesmen for each side are … Rudolph W. Giuliani and Lanny Davis!?

Up until this point, though, Giuliani was the Great Contradictor and Davis was merely a colorful character. Now that has changed in a big way.

In a new interview with The Washington Post’s Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman, Davis is backing off two massive claims he made in recent weeks, including that former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen has told people he witnessed President Trump being informed of Donald Trump Jr.'s 2016 Trump Tower meeting with a Russian lawyer before it happened.

“I should have been more clear — including with you — that I could not independently confirm what happened,” Davis said, adding: “I regret my error.”

Davis also backed off his claim that Cohen has information suggesting that Trump knew in advance about Russian hacking of Democrats’ emails in 2016.

“I am not sure,” Davis said. “There’s a possibility that is the case. But I am not sure.”

The first of these claims was put forward anonymously, initially in a report that CNN is standing by. The Post also reported it — though unlike CNN it didn’t report Cohen as saying Trump knew the information was coming from Russians — and cited Davis as an unnamed source. The second claim was made publicly by Davis on TV.
Good ole CNN, when in doubt, double down!
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:16 pm

Well, it depends what they mean by "standing by" I suppose. If they just mean, "We accurately reported what our source told us at the time," they may be correct. It's just that their source (presumably Lanny Davis) has now backtracked.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:18 pm

Anonymous source == made up shit

The only question in any particular case is whether or not there's a real anonymous source who made up the shit.

Or just the reporter.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by gnome » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 pm

People on the record can make up shit too.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:04 am

gnome wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 pm
People on the record can make up shit too.
"Anonymous source" a term of art in journalism with the precise meaning of unattributed made up shit.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Witness » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:00 am

'These are violent people': Trump reportedly told Christian leaders there will be 'violence' if the GOP loses in midterms
  • President Donald Trump on Monday night reportedly warned evangelical Christian leaders there will be "violence" if Republicans lose their majority in Congress as a result of November's midterm elections.
  • "You're one election away from losing everything that you've got," Trump said, according to a report.
  • If Republicans lose big to Democrats, Trump warned, "they will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently, and violently."
http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-vio ... &r=US&IR=T

Why so worried? :mrgreen:

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by xouper » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:23 am

Witness wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:00 am
'These are violent people': Trump reportedly told Christian leaders there will be 'violence' if the GOP loses in midterms
  • President Donald Trump on Monday night reportedly warned evangelical Christian leaders there will be "violence" if Republicans lose their majority in Congress as a result of November's midterm elections.
  • "You're one election away from losing everything that you've got," Trump said, according to a report.
  • If Republicans lose big to Democrats, Trump warned, "they will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently, and violently."
http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-vio ... &r=US&IR=T

Why so worried? :mrgreen:
Perhaps you are mistaking "typical campaign hyperbole" with "worry"? :dunno:

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Witness » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 am

Perhaps.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:19 am

I'd be more worried about the Democrats getting violent if they lose.
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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by shuize » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:25 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:19 am
I'd be more worried about the Democrats getting violent if they lose.
I'm not nearly as excited about Trump winning again as I am about watching the left's reaction if he does.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Grammatron » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:34 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:16 pm
Well, it depends what they mean by "standing by" I suppose. If they just mean, "We accurately reported what our source told us at the time," they may be correct. It's just that their source (presumably Lanny Davis) has now backtracked.
Except CNN simultaneously reported that something from anonymous source and that Lanny Davis did not return a comment.

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Re: The Schadenfreude Thread

Post by Doctor X » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:32 pm

Reads like Davis wanted to "remain anonymous" so they pretended, as expected, that they tried to talk to him.

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