Venezuela Meltdown

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Witness » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:36 am

CNBC wrote:Venezuelans report big weight losses in 2017 as hunger hits

Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty, according to a new university study on the impact of a devastating economic crisis and food shortages.

The annual survey, published on Wednesday by three universities, is one of the most closely-followed assessments of Venezuelans' well being amid a government information vacuum and shows a steady rise in poverty and hunger in recent years.

Over 60 percent of Venezuelans surveyed said that during the previous three months they had woken up hungry because they did not have enough money to buy food. About a quarter of the population was eating two or less meals a day, the study showed.

Last year, the three universities found that Venezuelans said they had lost an average of 8 kilograms (about 17.5 lbs) during 2016. This time, the study's dozen investigators surveyed 6,168 Venezuelans between the ages of 20 and 65 across the country of 30 million people.
[…]
Prices in Venezuela rose 4,068 percent in the 12 months to the end of January, according to estimates by the country's opposition-led National Assembly, broadly in line with independent economists' figures.

The study showed that 87 percent of people in Venezuela, one of Latin America's wealthiest nations back in the 1970s, were living in poverty last year, rising from 82 percent in 2016 and 48 percent in 2014.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/venezue ... -hits.html

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:43 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:What exactly is "crypto" about this new alleged currency, other than the government saves on printing costs?
For this coin, I don't know, but generally "crypto" refers not to the anonymity of it (which may or may not exist) but rather the method by which new coins are created and transactions are validated;. ...
I know all this.

I was perhaps being too subtle in expressing skepticism that this is what was done in this particular case.

My suspicion is that this is just more fiat money, but existing electronically only.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by shuize » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:27 am

Witness wrote:
CNBC wrote:Venezuelans report big weight losses in 2017 as hunger hits

Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty, according to a new university study on the impact of a devastating economic crisis and food shortages ...
How are people suriving? Is it mostly barter?

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by WildCat » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:03 am

shuize wrote:
Witness wrote:
CNBC wrote:Venezuelans report big weight losses in 2017 as hunger hits

Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty, according to a new university study on the impact of a devastating economic crisis and food shortages ...
How are people suriving? Is it mostly barter?
Last I heard they ate all the stray cats and then ate the zoo animals.

I suppose cannibalism is next.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Doctor X » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:33 am

Remember when the corpulent Chavez was the darling for being Anti-Bush?

Yeah . . . that was awesome!

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by gnome » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:43 pm

Just goes to show that being against someone you don't like doesn't mean someone should be applauded or supported.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by ed » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:36 pm

IOW the enemy of my enemy is not always your friend.

I just made that up.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm

ed wrote:IOW the enemy of my enemy is not always your friend.

I just made that up.
Oh? :evil:


And when I said it, I amplified that sometimes the enemy of your enemy is everybody's enemy.

Which is much more cogent. And even at that I didn't claim it was original.

That avatar is affecting your thought processes, ed.

Please change it. :)
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Witness » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:34 am

Buenos Aires Times wrote:The remains of Venezuela, a sanctuary for ELN guerrillas

[…]
But there is further data which has yet to be sufficiently quantified, concerning the advance of narcoguerrillas in vast areas of Venezuela. And here I’m not referring to those members of the Maduro government and the top brass of the Bolivarian Armed Forces (FANB) who have been accused by Washington and the DEA of drug-trafficking and money-laundering. I’m referring to the penetration of Venezuelan territory by the ELN (Ejército de Liberación Nacional, or National Liberation Army), the Colombian guerrilla force which did not join the FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) in signing a peace deal with Santos at the close of 2016 (the ELN’s own faltering negotiations with Santos were suspended last month). First pushed back by the Colombia Plan during the Álvaro Uribe presidency and then displaced for not returning to civilian life like most FARC cadres, the “elenos” started setting up camps in the Venezuelan state of Táchira two years ago.

There they dedicated themselves to drug-trafficking and moving contraband before proceeding to rob and redistribute the CLAP food boxes which the Maduro government supposedly distributes among six million citizens. They also mounted three radio stations, essential for recruitment. Today their influence has extended to the states of Zulia, Apure and Barinas.
Details: http://www.batimes.com.ar/news/Op-Ed/th ... llas.phtml

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by shuize » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:16 am

I really would be curious to know how people survive hyperinflation, but web searches send me in the direction of preppers and gold bugs.

In Venezuela, is it just barter, or is there a substitute currency, i.e. black market dollars?

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Grammatron » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am

shuize wrote:I really would be curious to know how people survive hyperinflation, but web searches send me in the direction of preppers and gold bugs.

In Venezuela, is it just barter, or is there a substitute currency, i.e. black market dollars?
Bartering and luck, speaking from a personal experience.

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Witness » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:26 pm

Image
At the height of the inflation, prices were rising at the rate of 150,000% PER DAY. By then, the government had stopped collecting taxes altogether because even a single day’s delay in collecting taxes wiped out the value of the money the government collected.
https://www.globalfinancialdata.com/gfdblog/?p=2382

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:01 pm

shuize wrote:I really would be curious to know how people survive hyperinflation, but web searches send me in the direction of preppers and gold bugs.

In Venezuela, is it just barter, or is there a substitute currency, i.e. black market dollars?
If you look back a few pages I posted an article about how women who managed to get out of the country
(were lucky enough - considering what the border is like now) found employment....

In Venezuela, they were teachers and doctors. To buy food, they became prostitutes.
...
“We’ve got lots of teachers, some doctors, many professional women and one petroleum engineer,” he yelled over the din of vallenato music. “All of them showed up with their degrees in hand.”

And all of them came from Venezuela.
...
“Prostitution obviously isn’t a good job,” she said. “But I’m thankful for it, because it’s allowing me to buy food and support my family.”
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:12 pm

Why does the inflation occur? Is it not because of outside factors?
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:25 pm

ed wrote:Why does the inflation occur? Is it not because of outside factors?
It is invariably one of two things --

1) The government does it on purpose to cheat their creditors.
Examples: Contemporary Venezuela, The Weimar republic, Hungary right before they went Communist after WWII, the USA at various times (but not to the same degree).

2) The government allows banks to do it. Not such a bad thing as long as the currency inflates no faster than economic expansion.
Examples: Any reasonably stable fiat currency in modern times.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:15 pm

ed wrote:Why does the inflation occur? Is it not because of outside factors?
In the case of hyperinflation I think it's always because the government prints up too much money. The reasons why they would do this are because at first it's easier than doing something unpopular like raising taxes or cutting spending. And because nobody will lend you money either. Easier only in the short term though. In the long term it destroys your currency which destroys your economy.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by shuize » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:15 am

Skeeve wrote:In Venezuela, they were teachers and doctors. To buy food, they became prostitutes.
Yeah, I think I saw an internet video about that ...

I figured that was one option. But what the hell does everyone else do? Barter, some kind of substitute currency, theft, or grow your own food. What else is there?

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:02 am

shuize wrote:
Skeeve wrote:In Venezuela, they were teachers and doctors. To buy food, they became prostitutes.
Yeah, I think I saw an internet video about that ...

I figured that was one option. But what the hell does everyone else do? Barter, some kind of substitute currency, theft, or grow your own food. What else is there?
Beg, borrow or steal. Or die. There's a NY Times article from December about children starving to death in Venezuela.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Doctor X » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:28 am

Thanks Chavez.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:37 am

shuize wrote:
Skeeve wrote:In Venezuela, they were teachers and doctors. To buy food, they became prostitutes.
Yeah, I think I saw an internet video about that ...

I figured that was one option. But what the hell does everyone else do? Barter, some kind of substitute currency, theft, or grow your own food. What else is there?
Well, some of the dudes spend their days "gold farming.'

Desperate Venezuelans Turn to Video Games to Survive
They start arriving even before the security shutters at the west Caracas storefront roll up at about 8:30 a.m. For 11 hours a day, they’ll hunch over old-fashioned cathode-ray tube monitors and bang on greasy keyboards in a dim space with a boarded-up window and a blanket of dust.
...
Crisis-wracked Venezuela has become fertile ground for what’s known as gold farming. People spend hours a day playing dated online games such as Tibia and RuneScape to acquire virtual gold, game points or special characters that they can sell to other players for real money or crypto-currencies such as bitcoin. The practice, which has previously cropped up in other basket-case economies such as North Korea’s, has become so popular with Venezuelans that they’re now spreading inflation inside the virtual worlds.
...
Venezuela’s internet connection speeds are among the slowest in the world—the country scored worse than war-torn Syria in a 2017 ranking of 159 countries. So many gold farmers work night shifts to avoid heavy traffic. Peña’s wife, Ruth Villegas, 37, who was whiling away some time at Mona Pizza with their 6-year-old daughter, says she used to regard her husband’s nocturnal gaming as a nuisance because it kept her up at night. “We’d get into ugly fights, and he would tell me: ‘I’ll leave you before I give up Tibia,’” she recalls. “But I can’t argue with what he’s making.
Bitchy woman complains about her husbands gaming...
until she comes to see that it beats the alternative...
Venezuela!
...yes a success, a flaming success....
Then Skank Of America could start in...