## Venezuela Meltdown

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
sparks
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

I stand corrected and thank you sir! You're a good man, I've always said so to anyone who'd listen, except ed, of course: As an elder god, he already knows all, so why bother telling him ... shit?

However, shit by any other name would still stank as bad.

And so on.

And then there is this:

Mr. ManTan was wrong about the wine: Not partial to them myself, but some are very good. If pressed (no pun intended), I'd have to say a great Merlot is my personal recommendation. But be warned-- some react badly to the acid content by tossing lunch. Just sayin'.

I'm only telling you this because sparks cares.(tm)
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

ed
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Abdul Alhazred wrote:US military intervention in Venezuela?

Why would it be any worse than those other times?

At least people ate.
Training. Jesus Christ, think of the well being of our troops.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

WildCat
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
Infinite.

They'll just say that this time they did Socialism wrong, next time it will work really really.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

sparks
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Ah.....

no. never mind.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Mentat
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
It is a good idea if your goal is to create a dictatorship. If you notice, a lot of them are.
It's "pea-can", man.

Lapis Sells . . . But Who's Buying?

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Mentat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
It is a good idea if your goal is to create a dictatorship. If you notice, a lot of them are.
If you want a working economy, you allow some market forces to operate in your dictatorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

Mentat
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

You don't want the economy to get too functional. A growing functional economy empowers the very people you need to subjugate to maintain power.
It's "pea-can", man.

Lapis Sells . . . But Who's Buying?

Skeeve
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

WildCat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
Infinite.

They'll just say that this time they did Socialism wrong, next time it will work really really.
Yep.
Ken Livingstone: Venezuela crisis due to Chávez's failure to kill oligarchs

If only Hugo had just whacked those guys...everyone would have a pony now...
Then Skank Of America could start in...

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Unlike Stalin himself, I believe most Commies do not really want mass starvation.
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

gnome
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

I'm sorry, I cannot allow this slander against Kirsten Dunst Marie Antoinette...

"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

Pyrrho
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Skeeve wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
Infinite.

They'll just say that this time they did Socialism wrong, next time it will work really really.
Yep.
Ken Livingstone: Venezuela crisis due to Chávez's failure to kill oligarchs

If only Hugo had just whacked those guys...everyone would have a pony now...
Ponies are tools of the oppressors. Instead, everyone will walk like good socialists.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

Skeeve
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### Re: Venezuela Meltdown

In Venezuela, they were teachers and doctors. To buy food, they became prostitutes.
ARAUCA, COLOMBIA
At a squat, concrete brothel on the muddy banks of the Arauca River, Gabriel Sánchez rattled off the previous jobs of the women who now sell their bodies at his establishment for $25 an hour. “We’ve got lots of teachers, some doctors, many professional women and one petroleum engineer,” he yelled over the din of vallenato music. “All of them showed up with their degrees in hand.” And all of them came from Venezuela. Venezuela. Yes, a success, a flaming success. Then Skank Of America could start in... WildCat Posts: 14100 Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago Has thanked: 34 times Been thanked: 364 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown Skeeve wrote: a flaming success. They're feeling the Bern! Do you have questions about God? you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj Doctor X Posts: 67856 Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm Title: Collective Messiah Location: Your Mom Has thanked: 3469 times Been thanked: 2195 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown "Red" Ken Livingston has been a joke since long before any of you lot ever heard of James Randi. On and off for a years in the past, enough fools believed in his nonsense for him to hang around. Now he is the British Pat Buchannan. People really do not know why he is still around, why anyone asks his opinion, they just assume someone else has a good reason for it. However, given the ascendancy of Mad Jeremy primarily due to the descendancy of Maggie Thatcher Without the Warmth--she and Hillary clash over which one of them will set back women in politics the most--suddenly the random thoughts bouncing off the inner table from a complete twat generates media interests. This is akin to people actually giving a shit about White Supremacists and their Fascist Opposites. You let a rat in the kitchen and the fleas follow. Suddenly, you are itching and scratching. --J.D. Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club! "Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don DocX: FTW.--sparks "Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho "Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence "It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct "I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron "Indeed you are a river to your people. Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho "Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel "just like Doc X said." --gnome WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!! Witness Posts: 17199 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm Has thanked: 2121 times Been thanked: 2886 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown Mail Online wrote:Venezuelans are told their expired passports will be valid for another two years after country runs out of paper and ink to print new ones http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ports.html Skeeve Posts: 10541 Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:35 am Has thanked: 69 times Been thanked: 81 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown I Lived Like a Baller for a Month in Venezuela on Just £75 An account (full of selfies and other pictures) of a guy's "vacation in paradise." Well, maybe not paradise, but it sure was cheep! I stayed in a five-star hotel, bought hundreds of beers for under a tenner and paid to fill up the petrol in all my neighbours' cars – all in a country where, to buy toilet paper, you have to queue up for hours. And I love this picture... The above is what €100 looks like in bolivares. Then Skank Of America could start in... Anaxagoras Posts: 21981 Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan Has thanked: 1425 times Been thanked: 1277 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown I think these figures should be taken with a healthy skeptical grain of salt because figures lie and liars figure. And I can think of reasons why they might lie or why some of the actual production might not be accounted for due to corruption. That said, fwiw: Crisis-hit Venezuela's oil output plummets in 2017 to decades low HOUSTON/CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela’s crude oil production fell nearly 13 percent last year, according to figures released by OPEC on Thursday, hitting a 28-year annual low that points to a deepening economic crisis and increased chances of a debt default. The South American country produced 2.072 million barrels per day (bpd) in 2017 versus 2.373 million bpd the previous year, a nearly 300,000-bpd drop. So how much of that is an actual drop in production and how much is just oil being stolen by someone? A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare Abdul Alhazred Posts: 71746 Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm Title: Yes, that one. Location: Chicago Has thanked: 3417 times Been thanked: 1258 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown Anaxagoras wrote:So how much of that is an actual drop in production and how much is just oil being stolen by someone? Good point, but I suspect production is down even with stealing, simply because no one is getting paid. Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box. -- our mission statement plappendale Anaxagoras Posts: 21981 Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan Has thanked: 1425 times Been thanked: 1277 times ### Re: Venezuela Meltdown Abdul Alhazred wrote: Anaxagoras wrote:So how much of that is an actual drop in production and how much is just oil being stolen by someone? Good point, but I suspect production is down even with stealing, simply because no one is getting paid. Part of it seems to be that even the equipment used to extract the oil is being stolen in some cases, and you are correct that people aren't being paid. Oil traders also seem to think the drops in production are real. Insufficient investments, payment delays to suppliers, U.S. sanctions, and a brain drain have hammered Venezuela’s oil industry. The production fall has hit oil exports – its only major source of foreign currency to repay debt - and refining, creating intermittent fuel scarcity in the country and at some of its main allies, such as Cuba. An alleged crackdown on oil graft in the last few months, seen by critics as an effort by President Nicolas Maduro to consolidate power, has sown panic across the energy industry and all but paralyzed state oil company PDVSA, according to people at the firm and in the sector. It is a remarkable downfall for the OPEC member home to the world’s biggest crude reserves. HOW LOW WILL IT GO? Venezuela’s oil gloom is set to persist this year, with the main question among analysts just how low its production will fall. Just in December, Venezuela’s output sank by 216,000 bpd from November to 1.621 million bpd, the OPEC figures showed, a 29-percent drop from December 2016 levels. Venezuela’s new oil czar, former housing minister General Manuel Quevedo, has vowed that output will rise to more than 2.4 million bpd this year. But Quevedo, who has no experience in the energy sector, has yet to provide a detailed plan. January has seen an unprecedented surge in resignations, spurred by dislike of the new management and salaries that often do not allow workers to eat properly, current and former PDVSA employees say. “They’re desperate to maintain production. Increasing it is too difficult. Internal conditions are devastating,” said one PDVSA employee, who asked to remain anonymous, referring to Quevedo’s output recovery plan. Still, the most vulnerable oilfields have already clocked the sharpest drops, according to Monaldi, which could limit this year’s decline. He forecasts production to fall another 250,000 bpd-350,000 bpd in 2018, starting from December’s average. Control Risks and Oxford Economics forecast a 470,000-bpd fall as PDVSA’s unexperienced management struggle to reverse low investment, cronyism, lack of payment, and equipment theft. Oil consultancy Energy Aspects expects a drop of at least 200,000 bpd in 2018, helping to balance an oversupplied global oil market. “Underperformance by Venezuela helps OPEC to reach its overall (production cut) target quicker for sure. Once balance is achieved, they will taper the cuts,” Amrita Sen, co-founder of Energy Aspects, told Reuters. A further production fall could also push cash-strapped Venezuela into full default, which experts say would be one of the largest and messiest credit events in history. Maduro has said Venezuela is willing to restructure its foreign debt, including some$60 billion in bonds issued by PDVSA and the government, but the country has been late with bond payments in the last few months.

As Venezuela is still making efforts to pay, holders of some of the world’s highest yielding debt bonds have so far been tolerant of the delays, but that could change if Venezuela is perceived to no longer have enough income to pay.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare