Venezuela Meltdown

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby sparks » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:58 pm

I stand corrected and thank you sir! You're a good man, I've always said so to anyone who'd listen, except ed, of course: As an elder god, he already knows all, so why bother telling him ... shit?

However, shit by any other name would still stank as bad.

And so on.

And then there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94LU7Cxk-ag

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby ed » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:23 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:US military intervention in Venezuela?

Why would it be any worse than those other times?

At least people ate.


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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:37 pm

How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby WildCat » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:39 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?

Infinite.

They'll just say that this time they did Socialism wrong, next time it will work really really.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby sparks » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:01 pm

Ah.....

no. never mind.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Mentat » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?


It is a good idea if your goal is to create a dictatorship. If you notice, a lot of them are.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:56 pm

Mentat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?


It is a good idea if your goal is to create a dictatorship. If you notice, a lot of them are.


If you want a working economy, you allow some market forces to operate in your dictatorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Mentat » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:08 pm

You don't want the economy to get too functional. A growing functional economy empowers the very people you need to subjugate to maintain power.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Skeeve » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:40 pm

WildCat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?

Infinite.

They'll just say that this time they did Socialism wrong, next time it will work really really.

Yep.
Ken Livingstone: Venezuela crisis due to Chávez's failure to kill oligarchs

If only Hugo had just whacked those guys...everyone would have a pony now...
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:44 pm

Unlike Stalin himself, I believe most Commies do not really want mass starvation.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby gnome » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:30 pm

I'm sorry, I cannot allow this slander against Kirsten Dunst Marie Antoinette...

http://www.history.com/news/ask-history ... m-eat-cake

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:36 pm

Skeeve wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How many times does it have to lead to starvation before nobody thinks a command economy is a good idea?

Infinite.

They'll just say that this time they did Socialism wrong, next time it will work really really.

Yep.
Ken Livingstone: Venezuela crisis due to Chávez's failure to kill oligarchs

If only Hugo had just whacked those guys...everyone would have a pony now...

Ponies are tools of the oppressors. Instead, everyone will walk like good socialists.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Skeeve » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:56 am

In Venezuela, they were teachers and doctors. To buy food, they became prostitutes.

ARAUCA, COLOMBIA
At a squat, concrete brothel on the muddy banks of the Arauca River, Gabriel Sánchez rattled off the previous jobs of the women who now sell their bodies at his establishment for $25 an hour.

“We’ve got lots of teachers, some doctors, many professional women and one petroleum engineer,” he yelled over the din of vallenato music. “All of them showed up with their degrees in hand.”

And all of them came from Venezuela.
Venezuela.

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby WildCat » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:50 am

Skeeve wrote: a flaming success.

They're feeling the Bern!
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Doctor X » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:25 pm

"Red" Ken Livingston has been a joke since long before any of you lot ever heard of James Randi. On and off for a years in the past, enough fools believed in his nonsense for him to hang around.

Now he is the British Pat Buchannan. People really do not know why he is still around, why anyone asks his opinion, they just assume someone else has a good reason for it.

However, given the ascendancy of Mad Jeremy primarily due to the descendancy of Maggie Thatcher Without the Warmth--she and Hillary clash over which one of them will set back women in politics the most--suddenly the random thoughts bouncing off the inner table from a complete twat generates media interests. This is akin to people actually giving a shit about White Supremacists and their Fascist Opposites.

You let a rat in the kitchen and the fleas follow. Suddenly, you are itching and scratching.

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Witness » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:12 am

Mail Online wrote:Venezuelans are told their expired passports will be valid for another two years after country runs out of paper and ink to print new ones
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4972088/Venezuela-runs-paper-ink-print-new-passports.html

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Skeeve » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:56 am

I Lived Like a Baller for a Month in Venezuela on Just £75

An account (full of selfies and other pictures) of a guy's "vacation in paradise."
Well, maybe not paradise, but it sure was cheep!

I stayed in a five-star hotel, bought hundreds of beers for under a tenner and paid to fill up the petrol in all my neighbours' cars – all in a country where, to buy toilet paper, you have to queue up for hours.


And I love this picture...
Image
The above is what €100 looks like in bolivares.
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:46 pm

I think these figures should be taken with a healthy skeptical grain of salt because figures lie and liars figure. And I can think of reasons why they might lie or why some of the actual production might not be accounted for due to corruption. That said, fwiw:

Crisis-hit Venezuela's oil output plummets in 2017 to decades low

HOUSTON/CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela’s crude oil production fell nearly 13 percent last year, according to figures released by OPEC on Thursday, hitting a 28-year annual low that points to a deepening economic crisis and increased chances of a debt default.

The South American country produced 2.072 million barrels per day (bpd) in 2017 versus 2.373 million bpd the previous year, a nearly 300,000-bpd drop.


So how much of that is an actual drop in production and how much is just oil being stolen by someone?
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:02 am

Anaxagoras wrote:So how much of that is an actual drop in production and how much is just oil being stolen by someone?


Good point, but I suspect production is down even with stealing, simply because no one is getting paid.
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:17 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:So how much of that is an actual drop in production and how much is just oil being stolen by someone?


Good point, but I suspect production is down even with stealing, simply because no one is getting paid.


Part of it seems to be that even the equipment used to extract the oil is being stolen in some cases, and you are correct that people aren't being paid. Oil traders also seem to think the drops in production are real.

Insufficient investments, payment delays to suppliers, U.S. sanctions, and a brain drain have hammered Venezuela’s oil industry. The production fall has hit oil exports – its only major source of foreign currency to repay debt - and refining, creating intermittent fuel scarcity in the country and at some of its main allies, such as Cuba.

An alleged crackdown on oil graft in the last few months, seen by critics as an effort by President Nicolas Maduro to consolidate power, has sown panic across the energy industry and all but paralyzed state oil company PDVSA, according to people at the firm and in the sector. It is a remarkable downfall for the OPEC member home to the world’s biggest crude reserves.
HOW LOW WILL IT GO?

Venezuela’s oil gloom is set to persist this year, with the main question among analysts just how low its production will fall.

Just in December, Venezuela’s output sank by 216,000 bpd from November to 1.621 million bpd, the OPEC figures showed, a 29-percent drop from December 2016 levels.

Venezuela’s new oil czar, former housing minister General Manuel Quevedo, has vowed that output will rise to more than 2.4 million bpd this year. But Quevedo, who has no experience in the energy sector, has yet to provide a detailed plan.

January has seen an unprecedented surge in resignations, spurred by dislike of the new management and salaries that often do not allow workers to eat properly, current and former PDVSA employees say.

“They’re desperate to maintain production. Increasing it is too difficult. Internal conditions are devastating,” said one PDVSA employee, who asked to remain anonymous, referring to Quevedo’s output recovery plan.

Still, the most vulnerable oilfields have already clocked the sharpest drops, according to Monaldi, which could limit this year’s decline. He forecasts production to fall another 250,000 bpd-350,000 bpd in 2018, starting from December’s average.

Control Risks and Oxford Economics forecast a 470,000-bpd fall as PDVSA’s unexperienced management struggle to reverse low investment, cronyism, lack of payment, and equipment theft.

Oil consultancy Energy Aspects expects a drop of at least 200,000 bpd in 2018, helping to balance an oversupplied global oil market.

“Underperformance by Venezuela helps OPEC to reach its overall (production cut) target quicker for sure. Once balance is achieved, they will taper the cuts,” Amrita Sen, co-founder of Energy Aspects, told Reuters.

A further production fall could also push cash-strapped Venezuela into full default, which experts say would be one of the largest and messiest credit events in history. Maduro has said Venezuela is willing to restructure its foreign debt, including some $60 billion in bonds issued by PDVSA and the government, but the country has been late with bond payments in the last few months.

As Venezuela is still making efforts to pay, holders of some of the world’s highest yielding debt bonds have so far been tolerant of the delays, but that could change if Venezuela is perceived to no longer have enough income to pay.
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