FakeNews Ongoing

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Skeeve
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Skeeve » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:17 am

For the daily laugh, #TFNOriginal: CNN Busted... again...





Enjoy the laughs, best taken with a grain of salt.
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by gnome » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:08 am

Skeeve wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:20 pm
gnome wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:14 am
Right... that's the original misleading story.

Here's what I'm talking about:

CBS: *posts misleading story*
"Hey, that's false evidence!"
Response: "Okay, that was fake evidence, but it really happened just the same!"
("Fake but Accurate")

Time: *posts misleading story*
"Hey, that's misleading!"
Response: Correction of misleading claims.
...(Fake or misleading - but corrected?)...
Unless someone's claiming even now that the child really was separated from her parents despite a false photo, I don't see how it's supposedly "Fake but Accurate"
Interesting, So how do we define Fake News?

Fake news: What exactly is it – and how can you spot it?
"Fake news" was not a term many people used two years ago, but it is now seen as one of the greatest threats to democracy, free debate and the Western order.
:dramatic drum-fill:
As well as being a favourite term of Donald Trump, it was also named 2017's word of the year, raising tensions between nations, and may lead to regulation of social media.

And yet, nobody can agree on what it is, the extent of the problem, and what to do about it. Here's everything you need to know.
Most of the rest is behind a pay/advertisment wall (Alas, I don't subscribe to the Telegraph so...)


In closing, I leave a link to: The Highly-Anticipated 2017 Fake News Awards

Can't wait for this years "awards."
:Popcorn:
I'm not pressing on the definition of "fake news", I'm pressing on the definition of a "fake but accurate" claim.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by gnome » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:11 am

I can help though:

"Fake News" - anything that was not an attempt to report on actual events, but instead to make people think that a completely invented story was factual.

This is as opposed to "Spin", which is reporting in a slanted manner on something that actually happened, or "bullshit" which is information from other sources repeated without regard for truth, because the purveyor finds it politically useful.

"FakeNews" - anything Donald Trump does not like, and may or may not be "Fake News".
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by xouper » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:56 am

gnome wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:11 am
"Fake News" - anything that was not an attempt to report on actual events, but instead to make people think that a completely invented story was factual.

This is as opposed to "Spin", which is reporting in a slanted manner on something that actually happened, or "bullshit" which is information from other sources repeated without regard for truth, because the purveyor finds it politically useful.
Please cite a credible source for your "definition" of "fake news". Thanks.

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by gnome » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:04 am

I'm not making an authoritative statement, I'm proposing a useful distinction that seems to align well with usage.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by xouper » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:21 am

gnome wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:04 am
I'm not making an authoritative statement, I'm proposing a useful distinction that seems to align well with usage.
Thanks for explaining your intention.

Please explain why you feel that your proposed distinction "seems to align well with usage"? In other words, how do you propose to show that your proposed definition is what most people mean by "fake news"?

I am not yet on board with your proposed definition, but I am willing to be persuaded by a persuasive argument or evidence.

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:09 am

Let's not get bogged down in the definition of "is".

What we are talking about is lying propaganda (to use the pre-Trump terminology).
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by ed » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:01 am

gnome wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:11 am
I can help though:

"Fake News" - anything that was not an attempt to report on actual events, but instead to make people think that a completely invented story was factual.

This is as opposed to "Spin", which is reporting in a slanted manner on something that actually happened, or "bullshit" which is information from other sources repeated without regard for truth, because the purveyor finds it politically useful.

"FakeNews" - anything Donald Trump does not like, and may or may not be "Fake News".
Not bad. I would suggest that Fake News can also refer to cases where an impressionistic brush is taken to real events. For example, at a Trump rally where a gesture is reported as a "Nazi salute" because that "fact" fits the narrative.
I think that this "impressionistic fake news" is probably the most prevalent thing out there. It is different from spin because spin can adhere to facts. What I am suggesting is that the "fact" is a convenient jumping off point for largely made up stuff. Though, to the purveyors of the news, it is probably true, just as Dan Rather figured that he was reporting "facts" for which he didn't have evidence.
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by gnome » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:27 pm

A useful distinction... though your comment about the purveyor thinking it is true is what leads me away from putting it from the "Fake" category into the "Distorted" category. As I see it, a "Fake News" article was written by someone that knows that nothing of the sort occurred at all. So we can possibly call your category "Distorted News" but I would agree it is the most common, and more deserving of attention because it comes from otherwise trusted sources.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Skeeve » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:40 pm

Found this one at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news
Fake news is a type of yellow journalism or propaganda that consists of deliberate misinformation or hoaxes spread via traditional print and broadcast news media or online social media. Wikipedia
Speaking of which: Commentary: Candidate caught with fake diploma calls it fake news — until she's forced to exit race
...
Sure, she lied. Sure, she’d been caught red-handed. But the campaign of Melissa Howard — an aspiring legislator who liked posing for pictures with guns and flags — had simply declared the proven truths “fake news.” And that was good enough for her fans.

When asked whether Howard, 46, should withdraw — to allow the other Republican in the primary race to proceed — Sarasota GOP Chairman Joe Gruters didn’t seem to understand the fuss. Yeah, she lied. But he told the Herald-Tribune “it’s a slippery slope when you start asking candidates who lie to remove themselves from the ballot.”
:o
...
Pipe down, partisans. Fraud isn’t limited to one party. Just ask Corrine Brown. The former Democrat Congresswoman is sitting in Coleman penitentiary right now after faking something worse than a college diploma — a “charity” that feds say funneled money directly to her pocket.

I’ve yet to find the party that has the market completely cornered on fraud … or integrity.

I’m just glad to know we still have some standards. That there are some things too rotten even for politics. And that more people can now clearly see the motives of those who scream “fake news.”
Guess that approach (calling it fake news) doesn't always work -OR- the truth will win out in the end.
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by sparks » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:47 pm

They all do it. On both sides. And that makes it 'not illegal', or a crime!!11 :)
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by xouper » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:00 pm

sparks wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:47 pm
They all do it. On both sides. And that makes it 'not illegal', or a crime!!11 :)
Here's an idea: Get the elected legislators to pass legislation that will disqualify any candidate from running for office if they get caught lying during the campaign.

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Giz » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:14 pm

What if they were lying to Russians?

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Doctor X » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:00 pm

They would lose their nerve. . . .

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by gnome » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:11 am

xouper wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:00 pm
sparks wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:47 pm
They all do it. On both sides. And that makes it 'not illegal', or a crime!!11 :)
Here's an idea: Get the elected legislators to pass legislation that will disqualify any candidate from running for office if they get caught lying during the campaign.
There would soon be no elected legislators left :P
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by xouper » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:27 am

sparks wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:47 pm
They all do it. On both sides. And that makes it 'not illegal', or a crime!!11 :)
xouper wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:00 pm
Here's an idea: Get the elected legislators to pass legislation that will disqualify any candidate from running for office if they get caught lying during the campaign.
gnome wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:11 am
There would soon be no elected legislators left :P
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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:22 pm

Was listening to NPR this morning and heard the news brief they do at the top of the hour. One of the stories was about 300 editorials published today by news organizations about Trump's "attack on the press". Really annoyed me with the heavy bullshit NPR framed the issue with. The editorials were a response about Trump calling all news media "fake news" (he hasn't) and concerning about attacks on the press like Maryland paper shooting (had nothing to do with Trump or politics at all). I just don't understand this unrelenting attack on Trump for things he hasn't done.

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:22 pm
One of the stories was about 300 editorials published today by news organizations about Trump's "attack on the press".
See my comments about "living up to your negative stereotype." However, the John "Envision Your Brick" Henry led Boston Pravda Globe has a long, long, long history of silencing critics and trying to ruin other media that does not share its lofty opinions. The Boston Sun Herald just published a long list of the Globe's attacks on alternative opinions. To which, one can say the same about conservative papers.

So the Globe and others exposed themselves as the partisan hypocrites Trump claims they are. Wonderful. The gains he makes he will lose with his next Tweet on "Fake News!"

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:44 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:35 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:22 pm
One of the stories was about 300 editorials published today by news organizations about Trump's "attack on the press".
See my comments about "living up to your negative stereotype." However, the John "Envision Your Brick" Henry led Boston Pravda Globe has a long, long, long history of silencing critics and trying to ruin other media that does not share its lofty opinions. The Boston Sun Herald just published a long list of the Globe's attacks on alternative opinions. To which, one can say the same about conservative papers.

So the Globe and others exposed themselves as the partisan hypocrites Trump claims they are. Wonderful. The gains he makes he will lose with his next Tweet on "Fake News!"

--J.D.
On the other hand this immaturity got him elected. It would be odd to dump a literally winning tactic.

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Re: FakeNews Ongoing

Post by Doctor X » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:38 am

I suspect that if he behaved more maturely, he would have won by a landslide since Hillary was that toxic. Of course, we will never know.

I am reminded of his first State of the Union address and, better, his speech on enforcing the "bright line" Obama apparently forgot he drew against Syria. I know a few who hate him who were impressed and surprised: "he sounded Presidential."

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!