## So where is Trump on guns???

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Skeeve
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
ed wrote:Except that he made promises.
...
Couldn't resist.

Or

As the impassioned man said to his lover,
"If you suck on my cock, I promise I won't to cum in your mouth!"
Then Skank Of America could start in...

Anaxagoras
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Trump is nothing if not mercurial.

Trump’s madcap, unscripted gun control meeting with lawmakers, explained
“You’re scared of the NRA,” President Donald Trump declared in a room of lawmakers Wednesday during a meeting on guns that pushed Republican priorities to the sidelines and had Democrats in the room cheering.

A bipartisan group of legislators met in the White House to try to make headway on gun law reforms in the wake of the deadly shooting at a Parkland, Florida, high school that left 17 dead and injured more than a dozen others.

Throughout the hour, Trump often veered into uncomfortable territory for Republicans and at times broke with his party altogether, reiterating support for policies many in his conservative base have taken issue with.

At one point, he said some in the group were “petrified” of the national gun lobby and sided with Democratic Sens. Dianne Feinstein (CA) and Amy Klobuchar’s (MN) proposals over those of Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA) and Rep. John Rutherford (R-FL).

In the televised meeting, which felt a lot like the freewheeling discussion Trump held on immigration last month, the president called for a bill that was “powerful” on background checks and that would address mental illness and possibly raise the age limit for buying assault rifles from 18 years old to 21. He also repeatedly stated support for beefing up armed security at schools and getting rid of “gun-free zones.”

In all, it was an undeniable call for comprehensive gun control — something Republicans have been wary of touching.

“I like that word, comprehensive,” Trump said. “They say it is a bad word. I like the word. I would rather have a comprehensive bill. ... It would be really nice to create something that’s beautiful.
I really don't put much stock in what he says though. He can only sign what congress can pass, and congress is controlled by Republicans.
What Trump said he supports on gun control (for now)

1) He wants a “powerful” expansion of background checks

Trump supported both the Fix NICS Act, a proposal sponsored by Sens. John Cornyn (R-TX) and Chris Murphy (D-CT) that would reinforce current laws requiring state and federal agencies to report criminal records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The bill would increase enforcement, step up requirements for federal and state agencies to update records, give states financial incentives to report to NICS, and penalize agencies that don’t upload their records.

He also supported a proposal from Republican Sen. Pat Toomey (PA) and moderate Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin (WV) that would expand the current background check system for gun sales at gun shows and online, where transactions between family members, friends, and neighbors go unchecked.

Trump repeatedly referred to Manchin and Toomey’s proposal as a possible “base” to a more comprehensive gun control legislation. This proposal has failed twice in the Senate.

2) Trump called for more robust checks for mental illness — even if it means confiscating guns

“You have to fix mental illness,” Trump said. “If someone is mentally ill, you can’t take it away. They can buy. It is ridiculous. ... I’m sure you’re going to fix it.”

The call was met with some pushback from Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA), who warned that not all people with mental illness are a danger to others. Republicans actually made it easier for people with mental illnesses to purchase guns last year, rolling back an Obama-era regulation that required the Social Security Administration to report mental illness records to NICS.

Conservatives have raised concerns that some agencies can formally declare “mental illness” without due process. But Trump doesn’t appear to have those same due process concerns.

“Take the firearms first and then go to court,” he said. “A lot of times by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early.”
3) He expressed openness to raising age limits for purchasing certain assault rifles

Trump reiterated his interest in raising the minimum age for purchasing assault rifles — which is a break from the National Rifle Association’s position and an idea House conservatives say is a nonstarter.

Currently, federal law prohibits anyone under the age of 21 from purchasing a handgun from a licensed dealer but allows adults 18 or older to buy rifles.

“People aren’t bringing it up because they’re afraid to bring it up,” Trump said of the policy. “You can’t buy a handgun at 18, 19, or 20. You have to wait until you’re 21. You could buy the weapon used in this horrible shooting at 18. You are going to decide — the people in this room pretty much are going to decide.”

It resulted in this exchange with Toomey:

TRUMP: I’m just curious as to what you did in your bill.

TOOMEY: We didn’t address it, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Do you know why? You’re afraid of the NRA.

TOOMEY: No. I dealt with the NRA five years ago.

At one point, Trump even seemed to express support for Feinstein’s assault weapons ban, telling Manchin and Toomey to add her proposal to the base bill.

Needless to say, Feinstein reacted with glee.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Doctor X
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

One thing he was correct about was arguing against the Whip and other Republican's attempts to attach a bill, that he supports in principle, to sort of--if I understand it correctly--smooth out the [conceal and?] carry laws between states. Where he is correct is that by attaching it they kill support for the bill as a whole.

That is a "bipartisan" scummy tactic of centuries history: attach the "Give Doctor X All of the Money Rider" to the "Preserve and Protect The [White for Anax--Ed.] Children Act to force opponents to VOTE AGAINST CHILDREN!!1!!!

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Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Trump is playing to the crowd.

If the Republicans come up with something somewhat rational ( as if ) and gets it passed, Trump will take credit.
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Conservatives have raised concerns that some agencies can formally declare “mental illness” without due process. But Trump doesn’t appear to have those same due process concerns.

“Take the firearms first and then go to court,” he said. “A lot of times by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early.”
Yeah well, that would be unconstitutional.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fourth_amendment
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Anaxagoras
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Maybe unconstitutional, but I don't think you can say for sure until the Supreme Court weighs in. After all, they seem to be fine with civil forfeiture.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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ed
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

and he seems to be talking about the oft maligned "executive order" to implement some of his stuff.
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ed
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

The National Association for Gun Rights is loud and active. This is the text of an email that I got today, I post it as an FYI for our non-gun toting, freedom hating friends.
Edward,

I’m afraid it’s all true.

We have an all-out emergency in Washington, D.C.

I regret to inform you that President Trump is advocating for more gun control than former President Obama EVER dreamed of passing.

Today, during a meeting televised on Fox News, President Trump, flanked by Sens. Dianne Feinstein and John Cornyn laid out his plan to pass radical gun control.

And I’ve got to tell you Edward, I couldn’t believe what he said.

When talking about gun rights and due process, Trump fired back at Vice President Pence, stating: “take the guns first, go through due process second.”

That’s right; President Trump is calling for the elimination of due process rights, which is the only thing that has prevented numerous innocent Americans, including veterans, from having their guns ripped from their hands.

All it would take is one government bureaucrat slapping a crazy label on your file for your guns to be confiscated.

But that isn’t the only anti-gun demand Trump made.

The President also made it clear that he is pulling a play out of Obama’s handbook and will ban bump stocks without even asking Congress for approval, stating:

“We can do that with an executive order . . . so you won’t have to worry about bump stock, shortly that will be gone.”

Remember during the Obama years when conservatives everywhere, including Donald Trump were railing about then-President Obama’s abuse of executive action?

In 2012, Donald Trump stated “Why is [Barack Obama] constantly issuing executive orders that are major power grabs of authority?”

I could ask President Trump the same question right now.

This is an all-out emergency, and your support now is absolutely vital.

The most important thing you can do right now is sign your NO GUN CONTROL, NO DEALS Petition making it clear to President Trump and the rest of Congress that we will not accept any gun control.

If you’ve already signed it, and want to help in the fight, you can click here and forward this email to your Second Amendment loving friends, and chip in to help us continue fighting these schemes.

Right now we are faced with an avalanche of gun control proposals being pushed by both Republicans and Democrats.

Here’s just a taste of some of the other schemes we are facing that President Trump backed at today’s meeting:

*** Spending more than $625 MILLION to beef up the Brady-NICS gun control database, barring more Americans from owning firearms. *** Raising the minimum age to buy or possess a rifle, assuring that a 20-year-old single mother can’t defend her family from a home invader. This bill was just sponsored by Senator Jeff Flake (R-AZ). *** The infamous Toomey-Manchin expanded gun registration proposal that we narrowly defeated in 2013. *** Gun Violence Confiscation Orders, allowing a family member, disgruntled ex-partner, or roommate to report you to a court and have your guns taken away -- ALL WITHOUT TRIAL OR DUE PROCESS. *** Scrapping concealed carry reciprocity, which was a major campaign promise of Donald Trump. This is just a small collection of the gun control proposals thrown around during the meeting. Even more extreme proposals, like Feinstein’s infamous “assault weapons” ban is still on the table, with President Trump eager to see what Feinstein can come up with. Things in Washington, D.C. are bad right now, but there is at least some good news for Second Amendment supporters. Solid pro-gun leaders like Sens. Mike Lee, Rand Paul, and Rep. Thomas Massie are fighting like hell to stop these anti-gun schemes. And with the 4.5 million NAGR members standing with them, I believe we have a good chance to defeat this gun control onslaught like we have in the past. So please don’t wait to take action. Gun grabbers like Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer are foaming at the mouth for more gun control, and we’re the only thing standing in their way. Please click here and sign your NO GUN CONTROL, NO DEALS Petition right away! If you’ve already signed, please click here to forward this email to all your Second Amendment-supporting friends and family. And once you’ve signed, please also consider making a generous contribution to help us fight back gun control. The gun grabbers are prepared to drop tens of millions of dollars to send the Second Amendment through the shredder. I don’t have billionaire financers on my side like they do. Instead, I have good folks like you who chip in a little bit at a time. And frankly, I prefer it that way. So please click here and make a generous contribution. Whether you give$300 or $200, or even just$5 or $10, it will be greatly appreciated and used judiciously to defend our rights. We need everyone who cares about the Second Amendment to take a stand now. Another great way to make your voice heard is to make a quick call to your lawmakers letting them know you are firmly against gun control. You can reach them with the phone numbers below: Sen. Marco Rubio: (202) 224-3041 Sen. Bill Nelson: (202) 224-5274 Rep. Vern Buchanan: (202) 225-5015 Your support right now is absolutely critical. I appreciate everything you’ve done to support the Second Amendment in the past, and I hope I can count on you again. For Freedom, Dudley Brown President National Assoc-iation for Gun Rights P.S. President Donald Trump just declared his support for eliminating the due process requirement to take guns away from those suspected of being mentally unfit to own them. He also sided with radical gun grabbers like Dianne Feinstein on a number of other extreme gun control proposals. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes on Fox News. If you are as angry as I am about Trump’s anti-gun betrayal, please click here and sign your NO GUN CONTROL, NO DEALS petition right away! And once you’ve signed, please consider chipping in$10 or \$20 to help defeat every gun control proposal that rears its ugly head in Congress.
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WildCat
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Difference between Trump and Obama is Trump was speaking off the cuff where his mouth moves faster than his brain. Obama was pushing carefully planned draconian policies. I don't see any draconian laws coming out of DC.

And remember, it was Bush who wanted to make the 1994 AWB permanent.
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you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Prediction: A Republican president, even Trump, will be subject to the pressure of the base on this issue. Whether it comes through the NRA, or conservative congress people, or whoever, someone is working on him right now. Probably literally in his office right now. I think he will walk back his comments within the week.

Side bonus: He will claim that's what he meant in the first place. Or he'll have a spokesperson walk it back and claim that's what he meant all along.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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ed
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Side side bonus: he will declare obsolete all the m-16s in army inventories and distribute them free gratis to boy scout troops.
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gnome
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

FWIW, this crap about mental illness confiscation and due process is off the deep end. I definitely do not support.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Mentat
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

This isn't the first time he wanted to bypass due process.
It's "pea-can", man.

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ed
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

gnome wrote:FWIW, this crap about mental illness confiscation and due process is off the deep end. I definitely do not support.
Yeah. What folks don't seem to understand is that when you toss constitutional protections into the crapper for your pet issues, the other guy can do the same.
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gnome
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

A person with intellectual integrity will call it no matter which side it comes from.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

gnome wrote:A person with intellectual integrity will call it no matter which side it comes from.
In short, no politician.
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

ed
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
gnome wrote:A person with intellectual integrity will call it no matter which side it comes from.
In short, no politician.
Right
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Grammatron
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

corplinx wrote:That's why the NRA should be _leading_ instead of just paying off congressmen to obstruct.

Eventually, some deranged shooter will spur shoddily written gun control that makes no sense.
Nah, California style laws will happen as a response. Meanwhile people like Wildcat, but more so people like ed will just buy CNC milling machines and 3D printers and make all their guns at home

ed
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

with 200,000,000+ guns in circulation it would be a while before the supply dries up.
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WildCat
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### Re: So where is Trump on guns???

ed wrote:with 200,000,000+ guns in circulation it would be a while before the supply dries up.
It's far closer to 450 million if the polls are correct.

I can't even fathom how many rounds of ammo there are piling up in basements and garages. Probably trillions.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj