So where is Trump on guns???

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21948
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 373 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by gnome » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Grammatron wrote:
corplinx wrote:That's why the NRA should be _leading_ instead of just paying off congressmen to obstruct.

Eventually, some deranged shooter will spur shoddily written gun control that makes no sense.
Nah, California style laws will happen as a response. Meanwhile people like Wildcat, but more so people like ed will just buy CNC milling machines and 3D printers and make all their guns at home
An interesting thought: If the process becomes efficient enough, could a person subvert possession laws by keeping it in raw material form and 3-D printing themselves up a bunch of them if the occasion arose? Wouldn't do you much good in an intruder situation, but in that theoretical "make it really difficult for jackbooted thugs" way there's presumably some lead time.

That, by the way, is where I stand on the whole idea that firearms for defense against tyranny is bullshit because the government has drones and tanks and such. While there is some truth to that, I'd bet a bunch of people with illegal weapons could be a nasty thorn in the side even if outright revolution is unlikely. I try not to go with that argument when debating the gun issue.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Mentat » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:55 pm

Rapid fabrication of complex items opens up a ton of legal and societal questions, even without worrying about creating guns. At that point, making a fully automatic firearm is probably not even the most dangerous use case.

The sad truth is as technology progresses, the capability to do harm does as well. It's something we just have to deal with.
It's "pea-can", man.

Lapis Sells . . . But Who's Buying?

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33358
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1692 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Grammatron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:00 pm

gnome wrote: That, by the way, is where I stand on the whole idea that firearms for defense against tyranny is bullshit because the government has drones and tanks and such.
Guerrilla warfare tactics are highly effective against tanks and drones, that's just a fact. How that may play out if this was to unfold in modern or future USA is a guess no one can make.

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70381
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3058 times
Been thanked: 1137 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:18 am

gnome wrote:An interesting thought: If the process becomes efficient enough ...
At the present time 3D printed guns are only proof of concept.

But with machine tools and the right skills, one could set up a small production line in one's garage.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13707
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by WildCat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:07 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
gnome wrote:An interesting thought: If the process becomes efficient enough ...
At the present time 3D printed guns are only proof of concept.

But with machine tools and the right skills, one could set up a small production line in one's garage.
I'm talking metal 3D printers.

Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33358
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1692 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Grammatron » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:10 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
gnome wrote:An interesting thought: If the process becomes efficient enough ...
At the present time 3D printed guns are only proof of concept.

But with machine tools and the right skills, one could set up a small production line in one's garage.
https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32834
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 736 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by ed » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:38 am

You only have to make one part, the rest are freely obtainable.

The solid models for many guns are available free. That means that with a used CNC machine you can turn out virtually anything.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67141
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3326 times
Been thanked: 2098 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Doctor X » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:41 am

Clearly we need to confiscate computers.

For The Children.

--J.D.

P.S. Looking for practical solutions. Have received some. Would agree that enforcing the laws one has already would help. Unfortunately, nothing helps with laziness.

P.P.S. In the light mist.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL East Champs!!

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21256
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1366 times
Been thanked: 1157 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:06 am

why don't the good guys with guns just prevent the bad guys with guns?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32834
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 736 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by ed » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:06 pm

gnome wrote:
That, by the way, is where I stand on the whole idea that firearms for defense against tyranny is bullshit because the government has drones and tanks and such. While there is some truth to that, I'd bet a bunch of people with illegal weapons could be a nasty thorn in the side even if outright revolution is unlikely. I try not to go with that argument when debating the gun issue.
Not bullshit but a tripwire for something really ugly.
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
The oath is to defend the constitution.

If things got really ugly, how long do you think it would take for the Chi PD to string Rahm Emanuel up from a lamppost on Michigan Avenue?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21948
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 373 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by gnome » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:29 pm

I don't know, but I do think it's quite plausible for some people who took that oath seriously to go overboard on the "...and domestic" part to the exclusion of most of the rest.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70381
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3058 times
Been thanked: 1137 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:57 pm

WildCat wrote:I'm talking metal 3D printers.
Seriously?

I take it all back. 8)
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13707
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by WildCat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:26 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:why don't the good guys with guns just prevent the bad guys with guns?
It happens occasionally: https://heyjackass.com/2018-self-defense/

But we're not allowed in the "gun-free zones" of course and we don't want to go to prison or even get a criminal record by entering them armed.

Surprisingly, lunatics who want to commit mass murder aren't deterred by an additional charge of bringing a gun into a "gun-free zone". You'd think that charge would concern them more than the multiple murder charges right?
Last edited by WildCat on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70381
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3058 times
Been thanked: 1137 times

Re: So where is Trump on guns???

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:32 pm

Interesting.

In this context "good guys" very distinctly does not mean cops. :coolspecs:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale