Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by WildCat » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:14 pm

CNN doubles down:
Here's the problem for Trump: Even if you believe that Rice did something that was wrong -- and virtually every intelligence official insists unmasking is a commonplace procedure -- it still doesn't address his claim that he had evidence that Obama has authorized the wiretapping of Trump Tower during the 2016 campaign.

Trump's phones being tapped -- and that order coming from the commander in chief -- is simply not the same thing as the national security adviser asking for the names of Trump transition aides in contact with Russian intelligence officials.

Again, even if you believe that Rice did something that was wrong -- and her strange decision to kind of, sort of, deny that she knew anything about the unmasking will add fuel to that fire -- it is still not proof, or anything close to proof, that Obama ordered Trump to be wiretapped.

If proof exists that Rice went beyond unmasking and was responsible for the leaking of Trump transition official Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador to the US Sergey Kislyak -- and there is no proof of that to this point -- then it absolutely warrants closer scrutiny.

But, even if that was the case, it would not validate the claim that Trump made that he was wiretapped by Obama. In fact, what we know is that the FBI, the former director of national intelligence and even House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes, R-California, have said definitively that Trump was not wiretapped.
You see? Her friends said she did nothing wrong (that's their "source" referred to in the caption at 1:35 of that video), and if you use a very narrow definition of "wiretapped" then OMG TRUMP LIED!!!!1!!1!1!1!1!1
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Grammatron » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:21 pm

WildCat it's very simple. Until Trump provides evidence in the form of a picture of Obama tapping into the phone lines, Trump is out of line.

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by corplinx » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:27 pm

The Trumpists are doing high fives and moonwalks while the beltway media is scurrying around shouting "NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!!! PLEASE FOR FUCKS SAKE MOVE ON."

Heeeeelarious.

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Doctor X » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:28 pm

He is Trump, so he must be wrong, Gram.

And Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize!!!

Your argument is invalid!

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by corplinx » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:28 pm

I mean seriously, why does it take electing a Trump to prove what a fraud mass media largely is to Joe Voter?

Did we need to learn this object lesson so harshly?

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:24 am

Just a note: This still isn't what Trump claimed in those tweets. You have to move the goalposts pretty damn far say that this is "tapping Trump's phones" or "wiretapping Trump Tower."

You may not like it, but apparently it was not illegal. She was the National Security Adviser and had the legal authority.

Ah, but what about their privacy, right? Well, Trump was overjoyed when Hillary associates had their emails leaked on Wikileaks, he asked Russia to do it publicly. All of this stuff didn't happen in a vacuum, Russia was hacking and trying to influence the election, leaking things on Wikileaks, all very much illegal, remember?
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by WildCat » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:20 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Just a note: This still isn't what Trump claimed in those tweets. You have to move the goalposts pretty damn far say that this is "tapping Trump's phones" or "wiretapping Trump Tower."

You may not like it, but apparently it was not illegal. She was the National Security Adviser and had the legal authority.

Ah, but what about their privacy, right? Well, Trump was overjoyed when Hillary associates had their emails leaked on Wikileaks, he asked Russia to do it publicly. All of this stuff didn't happen in a vacuum, Russia was hacking and trying to influence the election, leaking things on Wikileaks, all very much illegal, remember?
Trump didn't leak anything, but at least one person in the Obama administration was leaking. And Obama changed the rules so that many more people had access to the unmasked information, virtually ensuring that someone would leak it.
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:46 am

WildCat wrote: Trump didn't leak anything . . .
Yes, how convenient for him that he had the Russians to do that for him.
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Grammatron » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:50 am

Oh yeah? Got any of them evidences?

Thanks.

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by corplinx » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:56 am

Gramm did it, see, Russia.

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:06 am

Grammatron wrote:Oh yeah? Got any of them evidences?

Thanks.
See link 3 posts up.
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Grammatron » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:45 am

You're missing a few steps here. Like everyone else who "reads" that report.

Russia was hacking.
Russia was trying to influence the election
Wikileaks emails contained damaging information.

There's no evidence the 3 are related. I can perhaps see how hacking can be used as a tool to influence elections but still no evidence of it. But the emails did not come from Russian hacking, or hacking for that matter.

Unless you have something else?

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:18 am

Grammatron wrote:You're missing a few steps here. Like everyone else who "reads" that report.

Russia was hacking.
Russia was trying to influence the election
Wikileaks emails contained damaging information.

There's no evidence the 3 are related. I can perhaps see how hacking can be used as a tool to influence elections but still no evidence of it. But the emails did not come from Russian hacking, or hacking for that matter.

Unless you have something else?
I didn't claim anything so specific. However, it appears that you are incorrect, or at least what you say is disputed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Demo ... email_leak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0
According to various cybersecurity firms and U.S. government officials, Guccifer 2.0 is a persona that was created by Russian intelligence services to cover for their interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[28][29]
On June 21, 2016, in an interview with Vice "Guccifer 2.0" stated that he is Romanian.[30][25] On June 30, 2016 and January 12, 2017, "Guccifer 2.0" stated that he is not Russian.[31][32][33] However, despite stating that he was unable to read or understand Russian, metadata of emails sent from Guccifer 2.0 to The Hill showed that a Russian-language-only VPN was used.[34] When pressed to use the Romanian language in an interview with Motherboard via online chat, "he used such clunky grammar and terminology that experts believed he was using an online translator."[34]

Cybersecurity experts have concluded that "Guccifer 2.0" is likely a creation of the Russian state-sponsored hacking groups thought to have executed the attack,[18][19][20][21][22][23][29] invented to cover up Russian responsibility.[28][29]
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Doctor X » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:23 am

corplinx wrote:Gramm did it, see, Russia.
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by corplinx » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:19 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Grammatron wrote:You're missing a few steps here. Like everyone else who "reads" that report.

Russia was hacking.
Russia was trying to influence the election
Wikileaks emails contained damaging information.

There's no evidence the 3 are related. I can perhaps see how hacking can be used as a tool to influence elections but still no evidence of it. But the emails did not come from Russian hacking, or hacking for that matter.

Unless you have something else?
I didn't claim anything so specific. However, it appears that you are incorrect, or at least what you say is disputed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Demo ... email_leak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0
According to various cybersecurity firms and U.S. government officials, Guccifer 2.0 is a persona that was created by Russian intelligence services to cover for their interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[28][29]
On June 21, 2016, in an interview with Vice "Guccifer 2.0" stated that he is Romanian.[30][25] On June 30, 2016 and January 12, 2017, "Guccifer 2.0" stated that he is not Russian.[31][32][33] However, despite stating that he was unable to read or understand Russian, metadata of emails sent from Guccifer 2.0 to The Hill showed that a Russian-language-only VPN was used.[34] When pressed to use the Romanian language in an interview with Motherboard via online chat, "he used such clunky grammar and terminology that experts believed he was using an online translator."[34]

Cybersecurity experts have concluded that "Guccifer 2.0" is likely a creation of the Russian state-sponsored hacking groups thought to have executed the attack,[18][19][20][21][22][23][29] invented to cover up Russian responsibility.[28][29]
Most of us who work in cybersecurity understand why using russian vpn is indicative of nothing at all. This is something democrats use to create a fog of shit for lay people.

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:54 am

Well I'm no expert in cybersecurity but what about the part where the guy claiming to be Romanian is not fluent in the Romanian language?
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Doctor X » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:15 am

Someone pretending knowledge of a language but demonstrating sad incompetence in such?

面白いねー!

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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by WildCat » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:09 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Well I'm no expert in cybersecurity but what about the part where the guy claiming to be Romanian is not fluent in the Romanian language?
Yeah, you never see native speakers of English butchering the language on the internet.
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by WildCat » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:11 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
WildCat wrote: Trump didn't leak anything . . .
Yes, how convenient for him that he had the Russians to do that for him.
How did he "have them do it for him"?
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Re: Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:30 pm

WildCat wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:
WildCat wrote: Trump didn't leak anything . . .
Yes, how convenient for him that he had the Russians to do that for him.
How did he "have them do it for him"?
:) He's teasing you.
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