Syria

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Syria

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:50 am

Well, this is something new. What will it lead to? Maybe good things, maybe not so good.

I guess the best argument for this is that it puts our enemies on notice that Trump isn't Obama. He doesn't fuck around and isn't afraid to use force. I bet Assad wasn't expecting this reaction. Might be food for thought for North Korea too?

U.S. strikes Syrian military airfield in first direct assault on Bashar al-Assad’s government
The U.S. military launched approximately 50 cruise missiles at a Syrian military airfield late on Thursday, in the first direct American assault on the government of President Bashar al-Assad since that country’s civil war began six years ago.

The operation, which the Trump administration authorized in retaliation for a chemical attack killing scores of civilians this week, dramatically expands U.S. military involvement in Syria and exposes the United States to heightened risk of direct confrontation with Russia and Iran, both backing Assad in his attempt to crush his opposition.

The attack may put hundreds of American troops now stationed in Syria in greater danger. They are advising local forces in advance of a major assault on the Syrian city of Raqqa, the Islamic State’s de facto capital.

The decision to strike follows 48 hours of intense deliberations by U.S. officials, and represents a significant break with the previous administration’s reluctance to wade militarily into the Syrian civil war and shift any focus from the campaign against the Islamic State.

Senior White House officials met on the issue of Syria Wednesday evening in a session that lasted into early Thursday, and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Army Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, the national security adviser, have communicated repeatedly since Tuesday’s chemical attack, the officials said.
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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:00 am

Did not take long.

Good.

The impotence of Obama--never make a threat you will not carry out--led to Assad doing what he did, NK doing what it does, and, yes, Putin doing what he did.

Does it fix the problem? No. One base. It at least promises consequences for crimes against humanity.

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Re: Syria

Post by shemp » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:15 am

Doctor X wrote:Did not take long.

Good.

The impotence of Obama--never make a threat you will not carry out--led to Assad doing what he did, NK doing what it does, and, yes, Putin doing what he did.

Does it fix the problem? No. One base. It at least promises consequences for crimes against humanity.

--J.D.
So, Trump should send cruise missiles at Pete Carroll for calling The Play?
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Re: Syria

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:18 am

I don't know if you can entirely blame Obama because it was just a few days ago that Nikki Haley suggested that we were no longer interested in ousting Assad. I think this article was written before the airstrike, while it was still unclear what the response would be, but it shows the background:

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/ ... rson-obama
It’s taken less than two days for President Trump’s Syria policy to go from Bashar al-Assad can stay to Assad must go.
. . .

Images of the Syrian men, women, and children who suffocated to death seemed to shock Trump, who spoke Wednesday of the “beautiful little babies” killed in the attack, which he described as “an affront to humanity”

Trump went even further Thursday, telling reporters that “something should happen” to Assad because of his responsibility for the attack. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, meanwhile, said Assad would have “no role” governing Syria in the future and that “steps are underway” for a US-led international push to remove him.

If you think all of that sounds a lot like what you heard during the Obama administration, you’d be right. And if you think all of that sounds like the polar opposite of what you’ve been hearing from the Trump administration until just a few days ago, you’d be right again.

Take US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley, who said in March that “our priority is no longer to sit there and focus on getting Assad out.” Or take Tillerson himself, who said in late March that “the longer-term status of President Assad will be decided by the Syrian people.”

All of that has changed — rapidly. The president who campaigned on an “America first” platform of keeping the US out of conflicts that don’t directly impact core US national security interests now seems ready to intervene in Syria’s intractable civil war. The president who has talked of building closer ties to Vladimir Putin may soon start bombing the Arab dictator Putin has spent years propping up. And the president who was silent just days ago about Assad’s future is now clearly saying the dictator needs to go.

What a difference 24 hours can make.
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Re: Syria

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:44 am

By the way, they recently stopped disclosing information about troop deployments. I guess we have more troops on the ground there than before, but they are no longer making that information public:

Trump administration stops disclosing troop deployments in Iraq and Syria
Even as the U.S. military takes on a greater role in the warfare in Iraq and Syria, the Trump administration has stopped disclosing significant information about the size and nature of the U.S. commitment, including the number of U.S. troops deployed in either country.

Earlier this month, the Pentagon quietly dispatched 400 Marines to northern Syria to operate artillery in support of Syrian militias that are cooperating in the fight against Islamic State, according to U.S. officials. That was the first use of U.S. Marines in that country since its long civil war began.

In Iraq, nearly 300 Army paratroopers were deployed recently to help the Iraqi military in their six-month assault on the city of Mosul, according to U.S. officials.

Neither of those deployments was announced once they had been made, a departure from the practice of the Obama administration, which announced nearly all conventional force deployments.

The decision appears to be making good on Trump’s promise as a candidate to insist on more of an “element of surprise” in battle tactics.

“In order to maintain tactical surprise, ensure operational security and force protection, the coalition will not routinely announce or confirm information about the capabilities, force numbers, locations, or movement of forces in or out of Iraq and Syria,” said Eric Pahon, a Pentagon spokesman.

That move deprives the public of information it has a right to know about the wars in which the U.S. is engaging, said Ned Price, National Security Council spokesman under Obama.

“The position of the Obama administration was that the American people had a right to know if servicemen and women were in harm’s way,” he said.

“It’s truly shocking that the current administration furtively deploys troops without public debate or describing their larger strategy.”

In addition to the number of troops being larger, American forces are now nearer to the front lines in both Iraq and Syria than they have been since the war against Islamic State began nearly three years ago.
Yeah, I don't really buy this Ned Price argument: There needs to be a "public debate", and "the American people had a right to know". It's a recipe for paralysis, and everything is completely transparent to our enemies. Imagine if there was a "public debate" before D-Day?
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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:50 am

shemp wrote:
Doctor X wrote:Great Words of Humble Yet MagNIfIcence
So, Trump should send cruise missiles at Pete Carroll for calling The Play?
Only if you Hate America Image
Unwilling to Give His Buck-o-Five wrote:I don't know if you can entirely blame Obama because it was just a few days ago that Nikki Haley suggested that we were no longer interested in ousting Assad.
Oh I think I can. After nearly four years of failure the US lacked the leverage. What would be Obama's excuse? His impotence allowed the Russians to get involved because, "why not?!"

Assad just felt Trump's hands were as tied Obama tied his own. His hands are bigger than Oba[Stop it!--Ed.].

To answer the rhetorical flourish that concludes your quotation, "what a difference killing children with nerve gas makes."

Image

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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:55 am

Not Even 105円 wrote:Yeah, I don't really buy this Ned Price argument: There needs to be a "public debate", and "the American people had a right to know". It's a recipe for paralysis, and everything is completely transparent to our enemies. Imagine if there was a "public debate" before D-Day?
Sorry, missed this searching for bald eagle porn crushing you in my iron grip of logic . . . I agree. I would even add a "public debate" after Pearl Harbor. In a way there was.

A friend who leans so right I "Want to Save the World but All I Do is Smoke Pot and Smell Bad" in comparison ask: "What will the Democrats do?" That led to a long conversation I will not inflict upon you. I would hope they support this. Have not seen A Wandering Democrat Legislature commenting on this yet.

--J.D.
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Re: Syria

Post by gnome » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:55 am

I'm fine with not being informed of the strategic details. I do think the citizens need to be informed of the outcome we intend to achieve by using force, and to talk about it and be represented when Congress weighs in.

What I keep thinking is... I'm sure ISIS would love to send dozens of missiles at Assad targets. Who do we want to win? If there's no answer to that question my opinion is GTFO.
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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:57 am

There is no "good" answer, gnome.

There are "necessary" ones. One of them being stopping people who gas children.

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Re: Syria

Post by gnome » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:00 am

That's the only part of this that I like.
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Re: Syria

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:02 am

Doctor X wrote:To answer the rhetorical flourish that concludes your quotation, "what a difference killing children with nerve gas makes."
Yeah, on the other hand killing children with barrel bombs is that much different?
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Re: Syria

Post by Grammatron » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:10 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Doctor X wrote:To answer the rhetorical flourish that concludes your quotation, "what a difference killing children with nerve gas makes."
Yeah, on the other hand killing children with barrel bombs is that much different?
Yes.

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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:11 am

Yes, in a way. Death by sarin is particularly vile. Of course, having your legs blown off and bleeding to death et cetera is not exactly dying "aged 80 in bed with a belly full of wine and a girls mouth around my cock" either!

Strange as it seems there is this odd sense of "fairness" about weapons like gas. We can pretend with conventional weapons one is targeting "combatants." We know reality is different; Assad certainly does not give a shit. Gas has not even that facade.

--J.D.

P.S. Chuck Schumer put out a statement in support. Granted, it is the typical "lukewarm" but there it is.
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Re: Syria

Post by WildCat » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:21 am

How does this fit the "Trump is Putin's puppet" Democrat narrative?
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Re: Syria

Post by corplinx » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:41 am

60 missiles in 60 seconds.

Mad Dog has spoken and he said "god help the next one of you dipshits who uses WMDs while I am in charge, i will rain down the wrath of an old testament god on you."

I don't think we'll see another chemical or bio attack for the next 8 years.

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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:03 am

"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance" and all of that.

Do not underestimate the evil and stupidity of dictators. Assad rules by fear. His attack was terror to punish and keep civilians "in line." Hence follow-up strikes on the hospitals treating victims.

I hope you are correct of course.

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Re: Syria

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:20 am

Trump in 2013: "The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!"

Just sayin.
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Re: Syria

Post by Grammatron » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:23 am

WMDs though

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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:58 am

Providing the Snow on Bald Eagle Eggs wrote:Just sayin.
So you are saying that a President should not learn from mistakes?

[youtube][/youtube]

#Buck-o-Five

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Re: Syria

Post by Doctor X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:47 am

Meanwhile, the Russians are having a tantrum:
The Reuters news agency is reporting that Russia's foreign ministry has said it is suspending an air safety agreement with the US.

The deal is meant to help the two powers avoid clashes between their air forces in the skies over Syria.

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Plays right into Trump's plans/interests.

"About that Russian collusion?"

That and given the evidences--thanks--reported, the Russian stone-walling and denials have been approaching Betty level stupidity: "Maybe, like, the people there . . . had . . . like . . . chemical weapons and they . . . you know . . . OOOOPS!!!"

Evidences--thanks [Get on with it!--Ed.]--includes, apparently, Russia had knowledge of this use of chemical weapons. Bad look for Tsar Vlad I.

--J.D.
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