2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by RCC: Act II » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:49 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Hillary occasionally sounded a bit Marxist depending on the audience.
So would Reagan, really...

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:50 pm

Mr Garbanzo, tear down this wall!
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:04 pm

Mentat wrote:Hillary is Marxist?

What. The. Fuck.
Identity politics is inherently Marxist, it's rooted in Marxism.
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:10 pm

WildCat wrote:
Mentat wrote:Hillary is Marxist?

What. The. Fuck.
Identity politics is inherently Marxist, it's rooted in Marxism.
So I've heard from anybody who makes Mussolini look centrist.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:12 pm

A Marxist butthurt that progressives have co-opted Marxist identity politics:
I am a black man of working class background, I am also a Marxist. Frankly, if you tell me that struggles against racism need to take a backseat to whatever overgeneralized idea of working class struggle you’re advocating, I’m going to tell you to eat a bullet. Stop using Marxism as a cover for your personal discomfort at having to talk about race, gender, or sexuality. Marxism is scientific, so suggesting that specific struggles based on race/gender/sexual identity are of lesser importance in a society built on the subjugation of race/gender/sexual minorities isn’t just bad politics, it’s outright contrary to the idea of Marxism.

We have to realize that the struggles we are facing are, in fact, intersectional (I know you hate that word, probably about as much as I hate whitewashed Marxism). What we should bring to light, however, is that it’s not just about the intersection between racial, gender, and sexual identity, but between all those AND class identity. We need to put forward a new, Marxist identity politics that recognizes the special oppression that comes with race and the consequent importance of fighting racism head-on, but also emphasizes that the interests of the bourgeoisie and petit bourgeoisie of color are just as hostile to working class POC as the interests of the white bourgeoisie are and that the interests of bourgeois women are still hostile to the interests of working class women. Class and identity are not mutually exclusive: black and brown workers’ struggle is workers’ struggle; working women’s struggle is workers’ struggle; LGBTQIA workers’ struggle is workers’ struggle. The sooner some of y’all come to realize that, the sooner we can rise up together and overthrow this capitalism bullshit for good. Now, let’s do better.
http://www.leftvoice.org/A-Few-Words-on ... y-Politics
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:16 pm

This coming from the same dipshit that says there are hundreds of thousands of antifa members running around in our streets.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:22 pm

Mentat wrote:This coming from the same dipshit that says there are hundreds of thousands of antifa members running around in our streets.
Tens of thousands of antifa, hundreds of thousands of antifa supporters.

The latter are the type who compare them to the US soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy. And includes the news media. For example, compare this story about a demonstration and counter-protest in Richmond to video of the actual event.
Laura French talked to folks on both sides.

“The reason these are here is to tell blacks where their place is," one marcher argued.

“I want to learn from history so we don’t make the same mistakes again,” another man said.

Two of the people assembled agreed that they could learn from one another after some prodding by French, shook hands.

“It has been heated. It has been emotional, but it has stayed peaceful," French said.
The reality, as seen on video, is that the counter-protesters were violent leftists who were assaulting and threatening reporters.

[youtube][/youtube]

Longer, NSFW version:
NSFW:
[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:42 pm

I don't trust any nutcase who claims - and I quote - "There are hundreds of thousands of antifa, and they are supported by millions of Democrats including politicians at the highest levels of the Democratic Party"

Particularly when they are so fucking stupid as to accuse members of this very forum as being antifa supporters. Right after they dismissed the very same members for disavowing antifa. Point is, when you're a far right extremist, of course everybody else looks like an extremist. There's not much between that and being a violent extremist at that point.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:55 pm

Mentat wrote:I don't trust any nutcase who claims - and I quote - "There are hundreds of thousands of antifa, and they are supported by millions of Democrats including politicians at the highest levels of the Democratic Party"

Particularly when they are so fucking stupid as to accuse members of this very forum as being antifa supporters. Right after they dismissed the very same members for disavowing antifa. Point is, when you're a far right extremist, of course everybody else looks like an extremist. There's not much between that and being a violent extremist at that point.
For those unfamiliar Mentat thinks it's wrong to lawfully defend yourself when attacked by a masked mob of antifa. That's what this nutty rant is about.
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Just like Hitler was just defending himself from those pesky violent Poles. You are so far right that everybody else looks like a marxist antifa agent. And too stupid to understand that's because of you, not everybody else.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Doctor X » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:20 pm

At least you are not wetbacks.




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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by RCC: Act II » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:42 pm

Mentat wrote:I don't trust any nutcase who claims - and I quote - "There are hundreds of thousands of antifa, and they are supported by millions of Democrats including politicians at the highest levels of the Democratic Party"

Particularly when they are so fucking stupid as to accuse members of this very forum as being antifa supporters. Right after they dismissed the very same members for disavowing antifa. Point is, when you're a far right extremist, of course everybody else looks like an extremist. There's not much between that and being a violent extremist at that point.
"Antifa" is largely a paranoid right wing conspiracy seeking to connect the black bloc to everything left of the Cleveland Rotary Club.

I guess it doesn't occur to them that finding anti-fascism to be a bad thing is... curious.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 pm

Mentat wrote:Just like Hitler was just defending himself from those pesky violent Poles. You are so far right that everybody else looks like a marxist antifa agent. And too stupid to understand that's because of you, not everybody else.
And now you go all Godwin!

Were the Poles attacking Hitler with clubs and urine and explosives?
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:54 pm

No. Just like I and other democrats aren't either, yet you are fine calling us antifa. You just don't get it, do you?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:01 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Mentat wrote:I don't trust any nutcase who claims - and I quote - "There are hundreds of thousands of antifa, and they are supported by millions of Democrats including politicians at the highest levels of the Democratic Party"

Particularly when they are so fucking stupid as to accuse members of this very forum as being antifa supporters. Right after they dismissed the very same members for disavowing antifa. Point is, when you're a far right extremist, of course everybody else looks like an extremist. There's not much between that and being a violent extremist at that point.
"Antifa" is largely a paranoid right wing conspiracy seeking to connect the black bloc to everything left of the Cleveland Rotary Club.

I guess it doesn't occur to them that finding anti-fascism to be a bad thing is... curious.
Are this father and son fascists?

[youtube][/youtube]

Is this guy a fascist?

[youtube][/youtube]

Are Starbucks and bank of America fascist? Are the Black Bloc in this video figments of my paranoid imagination?

[youtube][/youtube]

Is this KTVU reporter a fascist?

[youtube][/youtube]

Do you really think that antifa only attacks fascists? Do you know how broadly they define fascism? Even if they do run across a real, actual fascist (and the demand for fascists greatly outstrips the supply) do you think they are justified in attacking them?
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:01 pm

WildCat wrote:
Mentat wrote:Hillary is Marxist?

What. The. Fuck.
Identity politics is inherently Marxist, it's rooted in Marxism.
Not historically.

What you have are lefty academics who "identify" as Marxists doing this.

Marx himself (though he didn't like blacks), early Marxists of various flavors, and the early Soviet Union discouraged any sort of dividing the working class along other lines.

And while Stalin deviated from that, that's not where what we now call "identity politics" comes from.

Blame the French (Derrida, Foucault, Marcuse). :)
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:03 pm

Mentat wrote:No. Just like I and other democrats aren't either, yet you are fine calling us antifa. You just don't get it, do you?
Did you read RCC's post above where he doesn't think antifa is a bad thing? How is that not supporting them?

Do you still think people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves from an attack by antifa?
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:05 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Not historically.
Yes, historically. From its inception, you can't have Marxism without identity politics. It is based on identity politics. pitting one class against the other. The proletariat vs. the bourgeoisie vs. the ruling class.
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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by Mentat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:09 pm

Did you read RCC's post above where he doesn't think antifa is a bad thing? How is that not supporting them?

Do you still think people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves from an attack by antifa?
I'm done with talking with you. You are sounding less like an uneducated hick and more and more like a right wing terrorist, and I don't want to be another casualty because you felt the need to "defend" yourself vigilante-style. This is how unabombers get made.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: 2020 Dem presidential candidate speculation thread.

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:16 pm

Remember when US soldiers stormed the beaches of Normandy to assault female reporters? RCC does!

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