US Navy Ship collission

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby gnome » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:43 pm

Too much reliance on instruments?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:03 pm

Maybe. They're going to investigate so I think they'll figure it out. In the meantime, maybe double up on the nighttime watches? At least in busy sea lanes?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:00 am

Word is that the Navy will dismiss the commander of the 7th Fleet.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Grammatron » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:16 am

Pyrrho wrote:Word is that the Navy will dismiss the commander of the 7th Fleet.


I've read that he was set to retire in September. If that's the case then this reads like "doing something".
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Doctor X » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:16 am

Hmmm . . . for once shit runs uphill.

Though, to be fair, I have no idea what the cause of these accidents is. No idea if there is a systemic problem that said commander ignored/did not prepare for/whatever. Or if it is something he should have investigated.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:24 am

I don't know that it is the fault of the commander of the 7th Fleet. Sounds kind of far-fetched to me.

If he's retiring anyway in September, it sounds like "convenient scapegoat". But, people are dead. I am certain that all 10 of the missing sailors are dead by now, which makes this an even worse tragedy than the last one.

So I guess maybe it is justifiable to "encourage the others" to try harder.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Doctor X » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:38 am

When there is a fuck up, there must be blame. Read a good book recently on historical scapegoats--got the idea from a post from corps, I think, about a British Admiral shot for a fuck-up not really his fault--there needs to be a "fall guy":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSLw2ddpM7U

Anyways, will be interesting to see what all falls out. One good thing with Modern Interwebs and the Like is it is harder to cover up fuck-ups and blame a Fall Guy and hope it all goes away.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:46 am

Doctor X wrote:When there is a fuck up, there must be blame. Read a good book recently on historical scapegoats--got the idea from a post from corps, I think, about a British Admiral shot for a fuck-up not really his fault--there needs to be a "fall guy":


Yep, that's what I was thinking of. John Byng. That's where the saying "to encourage the others" comes from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Byng
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Doctor X » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:48 am

Maybe it was you who mentioned him. Anyways, one of the sources on him is a good book on military scapegoats.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:39 am

http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Leadership/Disp ... -p-aucoin/

Bio of Aucoin

Pretty distinguished career as a fighter pilot. Medals include the Silver Star. A sad coda to a good career. He was an aviator, not a surface warfare guy. He commanded squadrons and air wings, but never a ship.

Not saying the decision to relieve him is wrong necessarily. We now have 17 dead sailors in two incidents that should have never happened.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Doctor X » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:52 am

Interesting.

He "did not go to Annapolis" but still made star-grade. I had thought it was very rare to achieve that in either the USN or USA(rmy); they promote those who attended their service universities. It happens in declared wars, but it is rare.

Which I would think means he was an exceptional officer.

On the other hentai, the fact he was retiring at Vice Admiral [Three stars.--Ed.] sort of suggests he could not qualify for a four-star [Admiral.--Ed.] job which meant he had to retire. What that means is anyone's guess. Could be simply politics.

Ah well, best for me not to speculate further or I will have to give xouper a bunch of pictures of anime Death Goddesses[Tm.--Ed.] and yandere.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:14 am

I gotta tell ya, it sure looks like a systemic problem

Image

And he is the guy in charge.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:34 am

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:55 am

This appears legit. What's missing is the symbol for the McCain. Missing because US Navy ships turn off AIS

I recommend watching at .25 speed. The collision happens at about the 50 sec mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrA36GzHNs&feature=youtu.be

Note the move the Guang Zhou makes and the Alnic Tries to turn hard port to avoid [the ghost] McCain.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:32 pm

USS John S McCain collision: Remains of all 10 missing sailors recovered

SINGAPORE: Divers have recovered the remains of all 10 US sailors who went missing after the USS John S McCain and an oil tanker collided off Singapore, the US Navy said on Monday (Aug 28).

The remaining eight sailors were retrieved by divers searching flooded compartments of the USS John S McCain, it said, after the discovery of two bodies was announced last week.

The sailors were aged between 20 and 39.

They have been identified as:

Electronics Technician 1st Class Charles Nathan Findley, 31, from Amazonia, Missouri
Interior Communications Electrician 1st Class Abraham Lopez, 39, from El Paso, Texas
Electronics Technician 2nd Class Kevin Sayer Bushell, 26, from Gaithersburg, Maryland
Electronics Technician 2nd Class Jacob Daniel Drake, 21, from Cable, Ohio
Information Systems Technician 2nd Class Timothy Thomas Eckels Jr, 23, from Manchester, Maryland
Information Systems Technician 2nd Class Corey George Ingram, 28, from Poughkeepsie, New York
Electronics Technician 3rd Class Dustin Louis Doyon, 26, from Suffield, Connecticut
Electronics Technician 3rd Class John Henry Hoagland III, 20, from Killeen, Texas
Interior Communications Electrician 3rd Class Logan Stephen Palmer, 23, from Decatur, Illinois
Electronics Technician 3rd Class, Kenneth Aaron Smith, 22, from Cherry Hill, New Jersey.
The guided-missile destroyer collided with oil tanker Alnic MC as the warship headed for a routine stop in Singapore last Monday, leaving a gaping hole in the vessel's hull and flooding it with water.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Rob Lister » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:40 pm

Anax, thanks for that. What a tragedy.

I think I've looked at that simulation about two dozen times and the only conclusion I can reach is that the McCain cut off the Alnic

Image

I marked in red what I think the course of the McCain was. This is supported by the course change to starboard that the Guang made trying to get the fuck out of the way of the crazy guy with the guns. The Alnic's course was dead straight until forced port by same said armed crazy guy steering port in front of him.

Maybe the McCain thought they had cleared him. Maybe they really did lose steering. Certainly 10 sailors are dead.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:27 pm

That's hard to believe, but I haven't really had time to look at that carefully yet. Would they try to thread a needle like that on purpose?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby ed » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:48 pm

Panic?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:28 am

Anaxagoras wrote:That's hard to believe, but I haven't really had time to look at that carefully yet. Would they try to thread a needle like that on purpose?


I agree it is hard to believe. The image is at the exact time of the accident so I can't see any way to conclude otherwise. The next frame shows the Alnic turning hard port as it collided. Thread the needle they did... tried.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:50 am

A lot of other ships were around besides the Alnic. Weird. Any reason they might have been in a hurry? Can't wait to start liberty?

Fuck.
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