US Navy Ship collission

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Rob Lister
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:00 pm

Witness wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:From the McCain report
Image
Is it a matter of tradition that all looks so diffuse?
It's just a diagram of the bridge. Diffuse? I don't know what you mean.
(And a direct hit there and you lose a dozen essential people.)
Nobody is essential. A dozen lessers are waiting below decks. (((Edit maybe three or four dozen but with each dozen you get less knowledgeable until you get me, And I would kill thousands with my incompetence)))
I would have imagined that most of the navigation was done with some joystick-like gizmo, with backups elsewhere. :?
That is true, and if you read the report you'll get an understanding of that. There is an Aft Steering. Same setup as the bridge but below decks in the aft of the ship. The joystick-like gizmo is actually the issue here. Nobody, including the skipper and all his primary subordinates, understood the User Interface of said joystick-like gizmo. They should have. Hence, death of many.

The skipper [ordered] the steering and throttle split between two different workstations who sit right beside each other on the bridge.

That was done [improperly] and without informing the person that was actually steering the ship. He thought he lost control of steering when it was actually sent to the guy sitting right [fucking] beside him.
[though not in the report specifically it is my estimation that the Conning Officer did that incorrectly and transferred both to the second guy, who had not a clue]

But because that guy wasn't trained any better than the first guy [or the skipper] the helm thought he lost lost steering [the second guy actually had it but didn't know it].

They then transferred steering to Aft but he took a while to actually get there (he should have already been there) and they jumped the gun and transferred it back and forth until somebody (the BMOW) figured out that no-fucking-body was steering the ship.

Nobody was qualified. Bottom line.

And people died.

How can all that happen? Not a clue to be had by reading the report. It *must* be a washed version.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Witness » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:58 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Diffuse? I don't know what you mean.
From the description of how it happened and the picture, I'm under the impression that these warships are like cars where one guy sits at the wheel, another steps on the gas, a third on the brakes and a fourth is in charge of watching the traffic – and they switch tasks. See what I mean?

:mrgreen:

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:04 pm

Witness wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:Diffuse? I don't know what you mean.
From the description of how it happened and the picture, I'm under the impression that these warships are like cars where one guy sits at the wheel, another steps on the gas, a third on the brakes and a fourth is in charge of watching the traffic – and they switch tasks. See what I mean?

:mrgreen:
Yes. That is true. And further, one guy has one engine, another guy has another, and another has steering, and another guy tells those guys what to do and the ood...
Last edited by Rob Lister on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Witness » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:14 pm

Small wonder then that there are fuck-ups. They still yell into pipes and use these:

Image

I suppose? :mrgreen:

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:16 pm

If we wanted your help, we'd surrender. :) :roll: :P :D

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:14 am

Rob Lister wrote: How can all that happen? Not a clue to be had by reading the report. It *must* be a washed version.
Yeah, this is the one for public consumption. We still don't know who the officer of the watch was on the Fitzgerald for example.

Anyway, the accountability phase comes next:

Head of Naval Reactors Appointed to Oversee Additional Disciplinary Action for McCain, Fitzgerald Collisions
The admiral in charge of the Navy’s nuclear reactors program will oversee any additional punishments related to the fatal collisions of guided-missile destroyers USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62) and USS John S. McCain (DDG-56), USNI News has learned.

Adm. James Caldwell was appointed by Vice Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Bill Moran on Monday as the “Consolidated Disposition Authority (CDA) for administrative and disciplinary actions related to the Fitzgerald and McCain collisions,” Navy spokesman Cmdr. Bill Speaks told USNI News.
“As CDA, Adm. Caldwell will review the evidence regarding causes of these collisions, and he will make a determination regarding what administrative or disciplinary actions are warranted, if any.”

The military uses CDAs in cases centered on an incident or a set of related incidents that involve several service members.

A CDA “ensures one set of eyes on a set of related cases – one legal advisor, one convening authority – which should lead to consistency in decisions among multiple accused,” Rob “Butch” Bracknell, a former Marine and military lawyer, told USNI News on Wednesday.

News of Caldwell’s appointment comes as the Navy has released a summary of the investigations into both collisions that indicate multiple failures in basic seamanship, leadership and navigation that resulted in the death of 17 sailors.

“I would expect to see more than a handful of formal disciplinary measures from each ship’s commander down to junior watchstanders, at various levels,” Bracknell said.
“Seventeen cumulative deaths of the sailors’ shipmates probably means at least a few people are going to stand trial by court-martial, and this situation is tailor-made for a CDA to exercise his solitary judgment as to the outcomes.”

To date, the Navy has removed commanders and executive officers of both ships; Capt. Jeffery Bennett, commodore of the Japan-based Destroyer Squadron 15 to which both ships belonged; the Japan-based task force commander Rear Adm. Charles Williams; and the commander of U.S. 7th Fleet Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin.

Additionally, an unspecified number of sailors related to the collisions have received non-judicial punishment, USNI News understands.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:48 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Rob Lister wrote: How can all that happen? Not a clue to be had by reading the report. It *must* be a washed version.
Yeah, this is the one for public consumption. We still don't know who the officer of the watch was on the Fitzgerald for example.

Anyway, the accountability phase comes next:

Head of Naval Reactors Appointed to Oversee Additional Disciplinary Action for McCain, Fitzgerald Collisions
I'm not really interested in people going to jail. Other than the two skippers maybe. Maybe.

How about a little irony this morning. From the McCain Report regarding Training, page 59
Several Sailors on watch during the collision with control over steering
were temporarily assigned from USS ANTIETAM (CG 54) with significant differences
between the steering control systems of both ships and inadequate training to
compensate for these differences
Do you recognize that ship? Google it. I double-dog dare you.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:38 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:
Rob Lister wrote: How can all that happen? Not a clue to be had by reading the report. It *must* be a washed version.
Yeah, this is the one for public consumption. We still don't know who the officer of the watch was on the Fitzgerald for example.

Anyway, the accountability phase comes next:

Head of Naval Reactors Appointed to Oversee Additional Disciplinary Action for McCain, Fitzgerald Collisions
I'm not really interested in people going to jail. Other than the two skippers maybe. Maybe.

How about a little irony this morning. From the McCain Report regarding Training, page 59
Several Sailors on watch during the collision with control over steering
were temporarily assigned from USS ANTIETAM (CG 54) with significant differences
between the steering control systems of both ships and inadequate training to
compensate for these differences
Do you recognize that ship? Google it. I double-dog dare you.
On 31 January 2017, commanded by CAPT Joseph Carrigan, Antietam ran aground in Tokyo Bay near her home port of Yokosuka, Japan. Antietam was anchored off the coast in 30-knot winds and a strong tide when the crew noticed the ship was dragging its anchor. They got the ship underway, but shortly after doing so, they felt the ship shudder as it lost all pitch control in both propellers. They had run aground on a shoal with damage to both propellers and one of the propeller hubs, causing 1,100 US gallons (4,200 l) of hydraulic oil to leak into the water.[4][5] No personnel were injured during the incident.[6] Repairs are expected to cost at least $4.2 million.[7]
Basically all 17 of the men who died were killed in their sleep. It seems like somebody should be responsible for that.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:57 pm

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... -continue/
The USS Benfold sustained slight damage when a Japanese tug drifted into the guided-missile destroyer during a towing exercise off central Japan on Saturday, the U.S. Navy said.

“No one was injured on either vessel and Benfold sustained minimal damage, including scrapes on its side, pending a full damage assessment,” a statement from the U.S. 7th Fleet said.

“Benfold remains at sea under her own power. The Japanese commercial tug is being towed by another vessel to a port in Yokosuka. The incident will be investigated,” it said, referring to the fleet’s base in Kanagawa Prefecture.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:40 am

Yet another incident with the 7th Fleet:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us ... 9650420415
TOKYO — Eight people have been rescued and are in “good condition” after a U.S. Navy transporter plane carrying 11 crew and passengers crashed into the Pacific Ocean off Japan, the U.S. Navy’s 7th Fleet said Wednesday.

The search for the remaining three is continuing.

This is the latest accident to befall the 7th Fleet, which is based in the Japanese port of Yokosuka, south of Tokyo, and has endured multiple collisions at sea this year, including two involving guided-missile destroyers that left 17 sailors dead.

The C2-A Greyhound aircraft was on a routine flight from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni in southern Japan to the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier, which is currently in the Philippine Sea on exercises with Japan’s Maritime Self-Defense Force.
3 missing, 8 rescued. Assume the 3 are dead or else they would have been rescued with the others.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:03 pm

I am curious as to how that could happen. I've flown in that plane a dozen or so times and there's not a lot that can go wrong that would end in a successful water landing. Double engine failure? Seems unlikely. Ran out of fuel?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by ed » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:12 pm

Rob, it is time you returned to active duty. Your country needs you.
You catch the crap about the unidentified plane over Oregon? Not that we give a rat's ass about Oregon, it's the principle, dammit!!
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:02 pm

Is it a 3-man crew? Pilot, co-pilot and navigator?

If I had to guess, the three casualties were in the front of the plane and the 8 who survived were the passengers.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:09 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Is it a 3-man crew? Pilot, co-pilot and navigator?

If I had to guess, the three casualties were in the front of the plane and the 8 who survived were the passengers.
Pilot, co-pilot, two to four aircrew depending on mission. I'm guessing anyone facing forward would be hurt worse than passengers which sit facing rearward.

Wiki says there hasn't been a major incident since Nov 73.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:29 pm

I never actually rode in one of those myself. I always boarded the ship from the pier, or in the case of some ports via a boat.

What's it like catching a wire?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:00 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:I never actually rode in one of those myself. I always boarded the ship from the pier, or in the case of some ports via a boat.

What's it like catching a wire?
Scary if you have a window seat. :)

You never flew on? I should teach you the game called Miss the Boat. I did a two-week tour of europe that way.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:31 pm

Rob Lister wrote:I am curious as to how that could happen. I've flown in that plane a dozen or so times and there's not a lot that can go wrong that would end in a successful water landing. Double engine failure? Seems unlikely. Ran out of fuel?
I wonder how close they were to the carrier. Was it an unsuccessful landing attempt?
As we reported Wednesday, the twin-engine propeller-driven C-2A Greyhound, used to ferry personnel and cargo, went down about 500 nautical miles southeast of Okinawa with 11 crew and passengers aboard as it was heading to the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN76). In less than an hour, eight were rescued "in good condition."
And who rescued them?

http://www.wbur.org/npr/566206063/searc ... ippine-sea
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Giz » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 pm

So, how much of this went on in prior years and how much of it is that only now, in 2017, are tramp steamers feeling confident enough to talk publicly about the navy's inappropriate touching?

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:36 am

Navy filing homicide charges for McCain, Fitzgerald commanders
The commanders of two warships that collided with commercial vessels in the west Pacific last summer, killing 17 sailors, will face negligent homicide and other criminal charges, Navy officials said Tuesday.

Four destroyer Fitzgerald officers, including skipper Cmdr. Bryce Benson, will face charges of negligent homicide, dereliction of duty and hazarding a vessel for the June 17 incident that killed seven sailors off Japan, according to the Navy.

The three other officers, two lieutenants and one lieutenant j.g., were not identified in the Navy statement. Cmdr. William Speaks, a Navy spokesman, said that the process for deciding whether the officers will be court-martialed is “very early in the process.”
Cmdr. Alfredo J. Sanchez, who was in command of the destroyer John S. McCain at the time of the Aug. 21 collision near Singapore that killed another 10 sailors, will face the same charges, according to the Navy.

An unidentified chief petty officer also faces a dereliction of duty charge, Navy officials said.

Non-judicial punishment actions are also being taken against four Fitzgerald and four McCain sailors, according to the Navy.

Benson and Sanchez were later relieved of command. It remains unclear when the hearings to decide whether to try the sailors on the charges will begin.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:31 am

Wow.

How common is that?

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